RE: Suggestions for Tidal Streaming problems caused by Internet Connection Problems


During the last several months, my Tidal Streaming service sometimes stopped playing for a few seconds and then started again.  In addition, sometimes, my Internet connection completed stopped working while listening to a Tidal album.  I re-booted my modem and router and everything worked but the Internet connection continued to sometimes drop.  It was driving me crazy.

On Saturday, I completely LOST my Internet connection on my MAC Computer.  I re-booted everything (twice) and still no Internet connection.  I called my Internet Service Provider (ISP) and they said the cable signal strength coming into my modem was incorrect (out of range) and scheduled a Maintenance Tech (Senior level, outside person) Service Call.  This is not the ISP normal service call.

The ISP Maintenance Tech arrived on Sunday and adjusted the signal strength for all their switching components carrying the cable signal to my home.  He then replaced the outside cable junction box (underground) for my neighborhood (3 homes including mine) since it was old and corroded.   He then replaced all the coaxial connector plugs on the cable from my wall plug to my modem and also replaced all the coaxial connector plugs in my outside cable box.   He noticed some of the wires were not straight so he rearranged the wires in my configuration both inside and outside.  Some additional adjustments were required on the outside cable junction box (fine tuning to get the require signal strength).  He was excellent and answered my questions on my configuration.  

When all of the above was done, he tested both the outside cable junction box and the inside signal strength to ensure all cable signals were in the required range (they were).   He then ran a speed test to confirm my upload and download speeds were correct (they were).  He made some additional minor cable and tuning adjustments and now everything is working fine.  He said if the cable signal strength is too high, or low, it will cause the Internet connection to drop its signal.  It has to be in its assigned required range.  

If you are experiencing Internet connection problems, the FIRST step to turn the power off your router, modem (take out the battery, if present) and remove the cable connection from the wall for 3 minutes.  To re-start, plug the coaxial cable back into the wall FIRST and turn on the power for all your devices.  This should solve most problems, but, if not, repeat these steps. You should also ensure the software in your router is current.  

If you are still experiencing Internet connectivity issues, you might need to call your ISP for assistance.  If needed, you might ask the Customer Support person to check the cable signal strength coming into your modem to help troubleshoot the issue. 

I probably should have called my ISP sooner but my Internet connectivity problems happened infrequently.   I was very lucky to have a very experienced ISP Technical person who knew exactly what was needed both inside and outside.   I hope this helps.
hgeifman
Tidal has been having issues with buffering from their end for a while now. I’ve gotten several replies back from Tidal tech support they are aware of and working on the issue. It’s been mostly better the last 4 days or so. Also one thing I’ve noticed if it does start buffering restarting the track often fixes it. BTW it sounds like you have a great ISP that's really excellent CS. No internet issues here just Tidal issues.
Thanks for providing the good info and writeup, Hgeifman.

An additional point of information which some may find useful at times is that by Googling the make and model number of the cable modem it is usually possible to determine a means of interrogating it from one’s own computer and viewing various status information including the incoming and outgoing signal strengths.

For example, I have an Arris TM822. When I enter 192.168.100.1 into the address bar of my browser I can view a bunch of status information, including received (downstream) signal strength on the various frequencies it may use, which are in the area of + 4 dBmV or so, and transmitted (upstream) signal strength on various frequencies, which are in the area of + 46 dBmV or so. (dBmV = decibels above or below 1 millivolt, positive numbers indicating above and negative numbers indicating below). Various references on the web provide information on the desirable ranges of these parameters. 

Downstream signal-to-noise ratio and counts of corrected and uncorrected receive errors are also indicated by my modem, along with various other information.

Thanks again. Best regards,
-- Al

I have been getting some buffering issues with Tidal.  I tried re-booting and I still have them.  I think I may have identified when it happens.  There is a little M on some Tidal tracks.  I am guessing that might mean MQA.  So far, my buffering only happens when I see that little M on the Albums.  Regular Tidal music is ok.  Anyone else have this problem?
willgolf I don't play MQA recordings so can't comment there but have gotten buffering issues on regular recordings. It seems to ebb and flow and lately has been much better. One trick I've learned if you get buffering is restarting the track will often alleviate the problem.
I’m (again) having interruptions listening to Tidal but it isn’t just MQA files. It was happening frequently a month or two ago. Got better for a while. Now it is back again. Hard for me to predict when it will strike. Does seem like buffering interruptions are associated with certain recordings (e.g., Magnus Ostrom’s "Thread of Life") more than others. These interruptions kind of kill the joy associated with the higher sound quality of Tidal.
I had similar signal dropouts and discovered it was my Linksys router.  Under some conditions, it would drop the signal.  Linksys said they were working on the problem.  I purchased the Apple Extreme router and the signal dropouts went away.  Please check your router. 
@ghosthouse 
@jond 

As I stated above, my Tidal signal was sometimes dropping and my ISP Technician said this was caused because the cable signal was slightly out of its required range.  This signal variance causes signal dropouts and I suggest you ask your ISP (Internet Service Provider) to check their signal to ensure it is in the required range.   The signal needs to be checked at the street (cable junction box for your house) and also the cable line coming into your modem. Signal checking at both location is required to ensure everything is working to spec. 

In addition, please confirm your router is capable of handling the signal load and it is not causing the problem.  As I reported above, my Linksys router was sometimes dropping packets.  Please keep us posted.  

@hgeifman After Tidal buffering problems started to occur I actually scrapped my old wireless gateway and bought a new state of the art model. Internet overall improved immediately but Tidal buffering continued though as stated sometimes better sometimes worse. In a bunch of communications with Tidal they have admitted it is an ongoing issue they are trying to fix. Sadly that is all they are willing to say though they did throw me 14 free days for my trouble. So yes some folks may have IPS and/or hardware issues but there is still an underlying issue with Tidal itself.
@jond 

I am streaming Tidal using an Aurender N10 and have no buffering problems.  Please send me what source you are using and a brief description of the problem and I will email Tidal to see if we can get an estimated time for repair.  
@hgeifman I am using an Auralic Aries Mini but I don't think the device is at fault all my own files stream perfectly fine.
@jond 
I emailed Tidal Support and requested they fix the Tidal Streaming buffering issues you are having.  My request (#395343) has been received and is being reviewed by their support team.   I figure that the more people complain, the sooner the problem will get repaired.   

Are other people having similar Tidal Buffering problems?  
@hgeifman Thank you and just got your message as well. Other people have been complaining there is another thread running with various folks complaining. If I can remember which thread I will post a link here.
No issue wuth Tidal at all in six months of use but I use a Mac Mini. I would avoid streaming devices as these will all have much more limitations on processor speed and smaller buffers than a PC.
This is vey confusing.   I have no problem streaming Tidal using with my Aurender N10 Server and, shadorne, also has no problems using his MAC Mini.  However, JOND is using a Auralic Aries Mini and has Tidal buffering issues.   Willgoft also reports, above, he has Tidal buffering problems on MQA albums (coded with the letter M).   

Tidal reports above "they have admitted it is an ongoing issue they are trying to fix".   I understand everyones server and environment is different, but it is very strange it works for some people and not others.  

I wonder what  the conditions are that cause it to not work.  As I stated above, my signal dropping problem was caused by my cable signal being out of the correct range that was repaired by my ISP.   I am hoping Tidal responds to our requests with addition information and a solution.  
@hgeifman Agreed it is rather vexing and I don't think you will get any response from Tidal other than they are working on the problem. I've corresponded with them repeatedly and that's all they will say. And FWIW no buffering issues the last couple of days which is nice!
on and off issues with multiple Bluesound 2.  get some Tidal error messages on my phone.  works fine with wav CD rips on the Vault 2 and usually fine with standard Tidal hifi.  issues pop up most often with the "higher res" MQAs.  it's not internet/wifi drops, and even happens on the Vault 2 which is connected by cable.

sometimes, restarting the song fixes the problem, but other times it "sticks" again after a few seconds to a few minutes.
Please see the response I received from Tidal below regarding the problem:

“Thanks for reaching out. Please have your friend contact [email protected] for further assistance. Best Regards,

Kevin - Technical Support Specialist
TIDAL Member Support”

Please email a complete description of your Tidal buffering problem to Kevin as noted above.  Please include ALL details including the device, DAC and the frequency including the time of Day.  I recommend that everyone on this post having this buffering issue send an email to the email address above.  The more people that do means, hopefully, the sooner it will get fixed.  Please keep us posted.  Thanks.   
@hgeifman  I have corresponded extensively with Kevin, who may be the only Technical Support person at Tidal since we've both emailed with him. This is his last email to me:

TIDAL Support [KevinMN] (TIDAL)

Oct 21, 10:08 AM EDT

Hello,

Thank you for reaching out to let us know what you’re experiencing.

Our programming team confirmed with me that this is a known issue that is affecting a number of users, which has placed it at the top of their list to fix.

While I don’t have a timeline as to when a fix will go through, please know that our team is working to resolve the issue as soon as possible.

We realize that this is an inconvenience for you, so we thank you for your patience.


Best Regards,

Kevin - Technical Support Specialist
TIDAL Member Support


Hey Group,

Any update on this?  Mine has been good until a few nights ago and I did get some buffering.  I am using an Ethernet cable to a Airport Extreme which is cabled via Ethernet to my Comcast router.  I am on Comcast Business class but in a residential area.  Being an IT Consultant I understand many of the particulars.

BTW,  since no one mentioned it, MQA tracks (Tidal Masters(M)) are streamed at a higher rate as they are 24 bit and I believe 48khz.

Hope y'all keeping warm and dry,
Robert
No mystery here folks.  Tidal's customer base is exceeding it's bandwidth allocation.  You will now see whether Tidal's priority is customer service (continued high quality music streaming) or the corporate bottom line (dealing with complaints rather than paying for more bandwidth).  I know it won't take me long to ditch them if the problem persist.  An uninterrupted mp3 is better than half of a high res song.
In my 3rd month using tidal. I'm about to quit service and demand a refund for the 2 months I paid for if the problems are not resolved very soon.  
The Arris modem/router provided by our cable company simply wasn't up to the task, considering the amount of wireless streaming done in our house.  I added a a second router, configured as a wireless access point, and connected to the Arris by a short ethernet cable.  The second router is only used for my audio.  Tidal is still not perfect but much, much improved. 
I feel as if Tidal has been largely okay as of late, buffering here and there but short-lived and sporadic. On the whole I'm happy with it.
after a few weeks of improvement, back to "Error" drops...about a dozen so far, today.  

My Apple Airport Extreme Router stopped working again.   This is the third broken unit and so I give up (one unit was DOA direct from the box).  My daughter also had to replace her Apple Airport Extreme Router since it stopped working (random signal drops, no Wi-Fi, etc).

I replaced my Apple Airport Extreme Router with the Luxul Wireless Router Kit – EPIC 3 AC3100 Wireless Router  & Controller W/ Domotz, Router Limit AND XAP-1510 AC1900 Access Point.  This wireless router kit combines high output power and simple deployment. The Luxul WS-250 offers the Epic 3 dual-band wireless AC3100 gigabit router, and the high-power AC1900 XAP-1510 access point (Extender).   This unit was highly recommended, and installed, by Magnolia Audio Video.  

"A WORD OF CAUTION HERE".  When you replace an existing router, you need to ALSO CHANGE your ID and password.  These changes will enable your existing devices to easily connect to the new device and not cause any IP addressing issues.  Magnolia also recommended I minimize the number of Ethernet cables coming into the router for improved overall system performance (both Ethernet and Wi-Fi connections).  I use the Luxul XGS-1008 switch box for my 4 Ethernet connections.  My Aurender N10 is wired direct to the Luxul router. 

https://www.luxul.com/kits/ws-250.aspx

The AC1900 XAP-1510 Access Point (extender) device is in my family room (far away from my Luxul router) and REQUIRES an Ethernet connection to the Internet.  This greatly improves the Wi-Fi signal through out my entire house.  

I also upgraded my ISP cable speed from 100Mbps to 250Mbps and have had no problems with Tidal Streaming.  I cannot prove this but I wonder if the Apple Airport Extreme Router had issues handling the streaming speed used by Tidal.  I also believe that the faster cable speed helped.  And, of course, my Netflix movies load much faster now.  Are most routers capable of handling the streaming speeds used by Tidal (is yours)?   I do not know. 

As everyone stated above, successful Tidal Streaming REQUIRES all your devices that connect to the Internet to be working perfectly.  This include the router, switch boxes, modems and the ISP connection (junction boxes, amplifiers, etc).   It seems, unfortunately, I have had issues with most everything down stream.  

If you are having issues using Tidal Streaming, I suggest you review these many components to ensure they are working okay.  And, yes, most likely, you will need to contact your ISP to ensure the cable speed is okay, the cable signal strength is within its required range, etc.  My ISP, Wave Broadband, was very helpful ensuring the service was working for me.  




I am probably a little late joining this conversation but here is a data point regarding the Tidal buffering/dropout problem or whatever it is:  I recently started the Tidal service and have both an Aurender N10 and an OPPO BDP-105 setup to stream Tidal and output to different stereo systems.

Both the N10 and BDP-105 are served by the same - and my one and only - internet service in my home.  I am using a new Linksys Velop Wifi mesh router system with both players connected to a different Velop node unit with an Ethernet cable (not wirelessly).  The latest firmware/software is loaded on both the Aurender N10 and OPPO BDP-105, but the N10 almost always buffers and has annoying dropouts after a few minutes of streaming Tidal HiFi or MQA files.  The OPPO BDP-105 hangs in there and can play Tidal HiFi or MQA for hours.  

So it does not appear that Tidal or my ISP is the culprit.  I assume there is something amiss with the N10 software but I don't know how to reload it or what to try next.  If anyone has any clues for me I would surely appreciate it.
@daddog, Please update your Aurender software as noted below: 

Changes from 2.9.4
* Bug fix
- Fixed connection issue when changes aurender.

http://www.aurender.com/blog/new-software-release-note-4


And, if problems continues, contact Aurender Customer Support at the link below. Several options are available. I suggest an email to the support email address below. 

http://www.aurender.com/page/contactus
My N-10 software is updated.
I’ve been having the tidal buffering problem intermittently for a long time now.
Today 04/18/18, almost nothing will play.
My N-10 freezes up for several minutes and has to reboot.
Keith,

I have had continuous problems with Conductor App freezes when streaming Tidal since installing the latest software on my N100H.

I turned in a ticket and Eric responded with an offer to “downgrade it to the previous version”. I was hoping that they would fix the issue(s) with the new version so I chose to delay that decision.

Things seemed to improve for a couple days but I had to reboot my unit again just a few minutes ago.

Kinda fed up with companies releasing software that is not ready for prime time thus placing customers in this type of situation.

Dave
Agree
i have a love / hate relationship with Tidal
I am experiencing the streaming issue after upgrading my N10 recently.  I have contacted Aurender support and they admitted the issue. But interesting, they asked me to try Tidal app direct. Unfortunately, the Tidal app is not working well too. It takes a long time to wait for the streaming.

I am really frustrated and considering to switch to Spotify.
@panda000, Based on your above post, it seems, you are experiencing Aurender streaming issues and also streaming issues when using the Tidal App.   

Of course, it might be an Aurender issue but I am asking if it could also be your Internet environment.  For example,  I also had streaming issues that were caused by my router, my ISP cable digital signal range, a bad ISP outside junction box and amplifier. Everything is working okay now.  I have a 250mbps iSP speed and a Luxul router.  

I suggest suggest you review both your Internet connection setup and also continue to pursue the Issue with Aurender. 

I hope my suggestions above help you solve these streaming issues.  Unfortunately, there are many parts, both hardware and software, that need to be checked. It took me about a month to get everything working.  My ISP was very helpful checking their end (inside, outside and downstream) to ensure everything was working.  And, they also replaced my inside cable connections and cleaned up my outside cable box. 
I will say I was at my wits end with Tidal a few weeks ago I would say it was only working about 40% of the time. Then boom two weekends ago it started working flawlessly and since then it's been fine. Only buffering I've experienced is between tracks. That doesn't bother me I just start the next track and it's fine. Fingers crossed they've fixed their issues!
I use Tidal via AT&T as an ISP and I have never had a problem through my N100H. I guess I should consider myself lucky. One concern I have is with the end of net neutrality and the effect it may have on streaming high quality content. I guess I'll hold onto my transport for a while.
Oh just to clarify I am not using an Aurender I use an Auralic Aries Mini. My issues were just with Tidal not with Auralic.
@hgeifman thank for your advice. But I have no issue with other streaming services like youtube, Apple TV that require higher bandwidth. To tackle the tidal issue, I have changed the router dns to google open dns, and setup QoS to give higher priority for N10. So far just experienced 1-2 seconds drop out. I also suspected this issue is related to recent aurender upgrade as I did not encountered drop out before that.
also, I think I would try Spotify too. 
@panda000, This is very confusing and I do not understand.  My Aurender N10 Music Server is woking fine and I have none of the drop out issues you mentioned above.  Of course, this is after I completed my various router and ISP changes I mentioned above.  And, after, I installed the latest Aurender software upgrade.

On the other hand, as you posted above, your Aurender N10 is dropping the Tidal signal AFTER you completed the latest Aurender  software upgrade.  AND, in addition, is working fine for your various other streaming service.  

I cannot understand why my Aurender N10 is working and your is not.  Your also stated above that "you have contacted Aurender support and they admitted the issue".   If Aurender has a software issue, you would think it would apply to everyone and not just a few.   I find it hard to believe that our N10's servers have different hardware but I guess anything is possible.  

I suggest you send Aurender another follow up email to [email protected]  Please describe your issue, again (sorry), and reference the fact that "they admitted the issue".   Please ask them if they are working on the issue and when they expect to release an software update.  Please also state in your email that "you have no issues with other streaming services like youtube, Apple TV that require higher bandwidth".  I also send them an email referencing your issues several days ago.

Since you are having have no issues with other streaming services like youtube, Apple, this confirms, for me, that your ISP environment is okay.   You also mentioned your Aurender worked fine BEFORE the software upgrade.  I do not know, but I wonder if the Aurender software upgrade was installed correctly by the Aurender process (that was not under your control).  You might mentioned this in your email to Aurender.   

I have no further information on this issue and have no clue why you are having these drop out issues.  Please keep me posted and, if needed, I will email Aurender Support requesting their help.   We need to get this issue solved.   

If anyone else on Audiogon, has any additional suggestions, or comments, please post them.  Thanks..

@panda000, I have been thinking about your Aurender issue after my above post.  Since we both have installed the “same” Aurender software upgrade and have experienced "different results", I am wondering if it is something else.  


The issue might (???) be caused by connectivity issues between the various boxes.  I do not know but have one more suggestion. Yes, it is a guess but might be worth a try.   The complete power down steps are:

1) Please turn off your Aurender N10 (complete power down) using the Conductor App on your iPad.  Once it goes off, unplug it from the wall plug for 2 minutes.

2) Remove the Conductor App from memory (just double tap the home button and then swipe up on the App to quit the App).

3) Turn off your modem and router for 2 minutes (unplug from wall plug).  Remove modem battery if it has one.  After the 2 minutes, turn on the modem first and then the router.

 4) Remove the Conductor App from the iPad.  Hold down on the icon until they jiggle then click X in upper left-hand corner of the Conductor App.  This will delete the App.

 5) Plug the Aurender back into the wall plug and start it up.  This process might take a few minutes.   Do not do Step #6 until the Aurender is fully booted up.

6) Reinstall the Conductor App from the Apple Store.  All your settings and data will be okay.  Go into Settings and connect your Conductor App to your Aurender.

 

Please test your Aurender and let us know what happens.   If your Aurender continues to experience Tidal drop out issues, please send an email to[email protected].   Unfortunately, I am out of suggestions and am hoping the above works.  

I am still bothered by the fact that Aurender admits they have an issue.  If this is an Aurender issue, they need to provide us a solution.


my issue was resolved. But I have no idea why
Everything plays perfectly now.
I think it might have been a problem with my modem or router .
BTW, Aurender has the most helpful customer service people I'ver ever encountered.
I have similar "pause problems" streaming Tidal on a Dell Windows10 Pro machine, thought it was the Windows or anti-virus updates, not Tidal, but maybe it's both?

Whenever I decide I'm going to use Tidal, I get the Dell up and running and leave it connected to the internet for quite a while (like an hour or more), so all the updates from Microsoft can complete.  That seems to make the situation better, but it's not solved the "pause problem" completely.

Since you are using an Aurender server, no Windows updates involved in that, so the next time I'm using Tidal, I'll post a support ticket with them.

Frustrating when this happens!
Want to add a little: Apartment dwellers often suffer from excess amount of WiFi congestion. Too many routers in too close range competing for a limited number of channels.

Get a smart phone app. On Android I use Wi-Fi Analyzer, which shows me all the signals and channels so I can assess strength and competition so that I can move my router to an unused or, at least, less used, channel.

Oddly, I have a wifi router that spontaneously will jump off the ideal channel and hop onto a very congested channel instead. No idea why.