Loss of bass & full spectrum sound


Can anyone shed light on my audio system problem?
I have PSB Synchrony one,Musical Fidelity M6i + cd player & turntable along w/video
The sound is Full with deep bass then after an hour it reverts to a different unenjoyable presentation with no life..
This has been going on in my NYC apt for about a year
I have a great sound then it changes (white-washed).
I adjust speaker cables(AQ biwire comet)& occasionally it regains a full body sound however after about one hour it's gone.
All my components have been checked to function properly.
I suspect an electrical problem but voltage is steady 120
Any similar experiences?
fishing716
Today was better but:
Sometimes a break in the circut like changing to a different source comprimises the full sound.
Does anyone have deep bass most of the time but weight & impact changes for no apparent reason?
Peak hours ( 5-9) pm are vulnerable time
Electrical conditions definitely affect the sound. Many people believe their systems sound the best early in the am or late in the pm. Try a good power conditioner, like an Audience. The non-Teflon versions are very good buys on the used market if you can find one. Don't cheap out on this - a crummy AC conditioner will kill the sound. I'm not saying Audience is the only good one, but all the good ones are just as (if not more)expensive.
@ fishing716,I believe I would start with your power at hand!,high -end recepticals for each componet,a dedicated 10 gauge electrical line for each componet,with a dedicated ground for each componet with a 20 amp breaker for each componet, this is what I use,problems?,I have none!,the sound will improve dramatically as well!,this will take a few hundred dollars to do,the pay-off sounds in the thousands!Happy listening!
I use Audio Prism Foundation II about $800
Be careful when it comes to power conditioning. Your problem may require a regeneration type conditioner that will stabilize its AC output. Most filtration conditioners have little ability to deal will voltage variances.

Voltage issues are extremely varied. Instead of listening to success stories on the internet I'd suggest using a manufactures trial period to determine if their product will affect your issues. After that you can still return the product and try to find a used version.
What do you think of PS Audio Regenerator P-3 power station?
"Conditioner that will stabilize its AC output"

Which manufacture makes this type of product and/or recommend?
I adjust speaker cables(AQ biwire comet)& occasionally it regains a full body sound however after about one hour it's gone.
If you have an electrical problem at the AC outlet, adjusting speaker cables will do nothing. Are the bottom connections on the speakers tight?
If your system demonstrates this problem everytime as it warms up it is something in your system, but if there is a pattern which occurs at the same time everyday you may want to try a power conditioner.
It seems like the problem is everytime the system warms up.
Everything was replaced with the same results and was unable to locate any malfunctions

Recent amp,speaker cable & speakers
The connections on the amp are tight
For some reason if I reconnect speaker cables I regain the missing low bass output.
It's quite vexing
Sounds like something is wrong with the biwire cable. If you can bypass it give that a try! It might open up when warmed up.
How do you bypass biwire?
For some reason if I reconnect speaker cables I regain the missing low bass output.
That’s why I ask about the bottom connections on your speakers. A problem there would result in a loss of bass, and it’s probably just one speaker. This could be the cables, or an internal connection at the speakers’ terminals. What type of connector are you using at the speaker, Spade or Banana?
I started with spades switched to banana's now am going direct wire.
I don't think that's the problem because I changed everything over the course of a year
Sill have the same result
I wake up in the morning,reconnect speaker cables after I pulled them out the night before.
The sound is full & deep
Over course of the day
Full sound is intermitten by end of day bass is long gone.
Did your speakers come with straps to connect the woofer and tweeter posts if you did not want to biwire? If they did just reinstall them,if not just use a small piece of wire and connect them together. Remember positive to positive and negative to negative. If that works that means something is wrong with your speaker cable or connection. Do you understand?If not get back to me and I will walk you through it.
Most newer audio gear should be able to handle wall juice fluctuations...I stuck some hospital grade plugs in the wall (I hope that hospital replaced 'em), use an old but reliable AC conditioner (Adcom ACE 515 that works perfectly so DON'T GIVE ME ANY CRAP), and the bias LEDS on my tube amp change often (I've checked this with a meter and the actual bias current fluctuation is tiny and irrelevant, but interesting). I conclude that the issue you're having is simply Karma, so try being nicer.
Definitely try what Yogiboy suggests, should be easy since you have bare wire connections. All this does is eliminate the separate paths for High and Low inputs to the speaker. Will not cause any problem, but will possibly sound slightly different. If you still have the problem, it’s not the speaker cable.

When you say the sound is intermittent, has it ever changed suddenly while listening, or does it seem to be a gradual change toward the end of the day? Also, can I assume that this change is with all sources?
I've tried one positive & negative solution using binding posts that came with speakers.
It didn't work,sound was even less appealing
Karma not withstanding!
Been told I've now entered the "twilight zone" & I need an exorcist.
Actually I've tried everything imaginable but the problem persists.
When I've lost the dynamic & good sound-
I notice the lower notes are still playing but the impact & "growl" has completely left
I tried jumper cables instead of biwire but the problem persists.
Audioquest Comet biwire 6ft cables w/banana's are not defective
Are you sure it's not you instead of the equipment? Has anyone else noticed the same thing listening to your system?

Can you borrow a different amp to try?
How do you know that the cable is not defective?How do you know the binding posts on your amp are not defective? I would try some inexpensive speaker wire like zip cord in place of the Audioquest and see how that works. You will solve this problem it just takes one step at a time.
Have you tried treating your refrigerator with sonic tonic? What about the lamp cord in your guest bedroom? I'd start there.
I started with spades switched to banana's now am going direct wire
and then the comment,
Audioquest Comet biwire 6ft cables w/banana's are not defective
When you said "direct wire", was that just basic speaker wire, and not the Audioquest?

And I'll ask again,

When you say the sound is intermittent, has it ever changed suddenly while listening, or does it seem to be a gradual change toward the end of the day? Also, can I assume that this change is with all sources?

I'm sure the issue can be solved. It's just a matter of taking steps to narrow down to the cause.
My Girlfriend hears the same thing as I
My amp is brand new and already had 3 amps here with the same results
Today the bass was there then after about 2 hrs was gone.
I switched speaker cables from left speaker to right side of amp & vice vera and the bass worked again
It has remained as I write for about 2 hrs.
it can (and will)go at anytime
The result is always unlistenable
Right now it sounds vital
I have Called PSB,Audioquest & Bryston(I had B135 for months)now have Musical Fidelity M6i
These companies were reluctant to believe me or suggest a remedy.
My Dealer in Florida *I am in NYC also has no solution.
At least he allows me to trade recent purchases for newer products with little loss.
I am saving to audition PS Audio P-3 power station with return previlage in hopes that will solve the problem.
I would really like to hear from other members with similar issues
I worked in the audio industry for over 20 years, and even had upscale systems years before that time. Have helped many friends and other people solve just about any problem you could imagine, however this one is unique. You said you have used different amps and speaker cables, has this happened with the same pair of speakers?
Haunted. Your system is simply haunted. Get out while you still can.
System doesn't sound good at all today
No bass or fullness whatsoever.
I had Synchrony II speakers now have synchrony I with same problem.
It must be because I live in a complex & the electricty is flux.
I was hopeing someone else had similar problems but mine seems to be unique
It has been suggested to me by Ralph Karsten that the problems you describe could be the result of RFI contamination of your environment. The only part of your story that gives me pause is that the problem seems to show up after warm up. I don't see a tie in between that and RFI infiltration. However, I believe you stated that you live in an apartment which could surely be awash in RFI based on poulation density and neighbors using all kinds of computers/electronics with SMPS, etc.

I just wonder if there is any chance you might have a failing powwr supply capacitor in amp or source that begins to fail after a period of usage/warmup. I'm by no means a "tech" guy but it sounds like you are losing drive.
Kijanki has a line on some great ear buds on another thread.
I have fantastic equipment
No need for ear buds
Hope to try PS Audio P-3 power station
If it doesn't help I'm able to return for refund
My Amp is Brand new(Musical Fidelity M6i) after replacing a privious brand new amp (Bryston B135).
It's unlikely the power supply capacitor is failing in my amp.
What you said about RFI is worth investgating
My prior statement that the system changes when warmed up was not accurate..
There is no reoccuring pattern when the sound will changes.
The kick drum & heft behind the bass lasts up to 72 hrs.
Has anyone tried Highwire powerwraps to rid RFI interference?

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7195-highwire-all-clear-rfi-coils-pr.aspx

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7194-highwire-powerwrap-ea.aspx
Clearly, no one here has had those interference issues to warrant an expenditure worthy of paying more than the cost of the ear buds Kijanki is promoting on another thread. I bought two pair. Problem solved.

A few suggestions:

1.
Use 10 gauge or 8 gauge speaker wire. Get the Belden 5T00UP (10awg) or the Canare Star Quad 4S11 (8awg). The thicker cable will offer less resistance than similarly designed smaller gauge cable. In my experience, I get deeper bass with the larger gauge cables. If you're bi-wiring, get a pair of speaker cables per speaker, even if you get the Canare 4S11.

2.
If you have a source with Balanced output, use it instead of RCA.

3.
Get to audition an isolation transformer type of power conditioner, such as Torus Power or Bryston BIT units.

I'm also in Manhattan and I have experienced something similar some years ago with another system. I did some experimentation a few years back looking into the effect of speaker wire gauge and bass response. Using cheap speaker wire, I found out that as the wire got bigger (smaller gauge), I got deeper bass and a more balanced sound.

Also, in my system, I get better bass response using copper wire instead of silver. Silver provides better definition, but I get a more balanced sound from top to bottom using copper-based cables.

I hope this helps.
Is it possible that the speaker drivers have a defect which shows up after they have been driven for a while?
Not likely. But I agree with everything you've said. IME, you really do need 8awg, all the way to the power supply itself. Change it out in your amp and you'll be blown away.
You might also try a different outlet using a 12g extension cord. You could also go as far as trying an outlet that is on a different breaker.
That's interesting
I had PSB Synchrony II & figure Synchrony would give more bass (which it does when working) but never tried different brand speakers.
I like PSB Synchrony sound and no one else has problems with them.So would probably discount a driver problem with the PSB
I tried every outlet in my apartment with the same results..
Sometimes the bass would be full & taut but would quickly go away
What gauge do I currently have?
My cables are Audioquest Comet biwire
I've noticed it's eaiser to get one speaker working with full spectrum sound after pulling out speaker cables.
When I try for both speakers after "I found the bsss working properly" it's more difficult to get both speakers to be working together.
The slightet break in the circut like changing Records or different sources eaisly knocks out the lower full bass.
Even with the one speaker after 'bout an hour the sound changes and the taut bass is gone.
Left with music with no emotion
I am thinking of buying PS Audio P-3 power station
Anyone have helpful insight if this would help?
Have you thought about the interconnects?There was another thread about a loose connection internally that was discovered by carefully twisting the connector as music played.It's worth a try.
My guess is the you have a intermittent AC connection acting as a diode either In your AC box, a sub panel,circuit breaker or where your service starts in the basement.
Call an electrician, and make sure he tightens up on all of the possible connections.
We have seen this in the AC box as it arcs in and out spoiling the systems performance.
No power cons will correct for this.

JohnnyR
@ fishing716,Hi, I do not want say this,I told you so!,,I already gave you a complete solution,you would be done!your problems with your system would be all but a distant bad dream!,go back to the information I gave you,, wala! Happy listening!,

What gauge do I currently have?
My cables are Audioquest Comet biwire
Audioquest does not publish specs regarding their cables gauge or electrical behavior, for some reason. I'm guessing here, but I doubt they offer large gauge speaker cable for their low-end or mid-range lines. Like many cable companies, they save the large gauge wires for the big boy$$$$.

The suggested large gauge cables are an affordable way to bring low resistance signal transfer from your integrated amp to your speakers. Given the same cable design, a larger wire gauge should yield lower resistance values.

Don't waste your money on the Highwire Powerwraps featuring voodoo science.

@ fishing716,I believe I would start with your power at hand!,high -end recepticals for each componet,a dedicated 10 gauge electrical line for each componet,with a dedicated ground for each componet with a 20 amp breaker for each componet, this is what I use,problems?,I have none!,the sound will improve dramatically as well!,this will take a few hundred dollars to do,the pay-off sounds in the thousands!Happy listening!

I'm sorry but don't understand all these details such as 10 gauge electrical line(what is that?)
Also 20 amp breaker(what is that?)
I apologise if I'm not knowledgable of electrical terms as you assume.
I'm just a music listener