I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
I hesitate to backtrack like this, but being the foolish person I can be sometimes I’ll go ahead.
o10, you chided readers for not commenting on your initial 1/18 "hard bop" comments and selections. Well, I enjoyed those but was confused by your suggestion of Pepper Adams. I read that to mean he was represented on all your selections. I intended to comment then but was sidetracked and didn't get back to it.
Picking just one, the Mingus "Moanin’" did not include Adams, although I believe he did record that with Mingus on another album. Anyway, Mingus was a leader who seemed to go through a wide variety of sidemen, other than Danny Richman of course. For another example of a bari-sax player with Mingus check this out -
mary jo, you may be a newbie but you show very good taste in my opinion, lots of classic and outstanding albums there.
Since you mention Chet Baker more than other musician let me suggest this album. Hard to believe it was done in 1955. It has been a favorite of mine for decades. Hope you enjoy it, everyone else too -
While the "California Concerts" is a great album, it did not include Baker and I should not have suggested it. This is an example of the Mulligan/Baker collaboration I had in mind so give it a try -
Pryso, I'm glad you backtracked, my mistake that Pepper Adams was not on the "Moanin" cut, I thought he was.
That post was meant to illustrate what a fantastic sideman he was. He was with Mingus, on one, Donald Bird, on another, plus Lee Morgan on a third; the cat could jam. Rok thought that was the best "Night In Tunisia" he had ever heard. Depending on the time of day, the humidity and the temperature, I agree with him. My opinion of who is best on what, changes like that; it's because I listen to so many cats who can really jam. Just think of all the fantastic versions of that jam you have listened to and enjoyed.
I could go on about Pepper Adams, but I think I made my point.
While I would still choose Pepper Adams by a horse hair, Ronnie Cuber was excellent; a close second to Pepper Adams. A lot depends on the first version of a tune the individual has listened to.
That Gerry Mulligan was a fantastic example of "West Coast Jazz"; it's almost like he defines the genre, the mood; LA on a misty night. "Pacific Jazz Records"; when I read that label, I know I can sit back relax, and listen to some fine examples of "West Coast Jazz".
Gerry Mulligan - Reunion With Chet Baker is a slightly different version of West Coast Jazz, that is also exemplified by Jimmy Giuffre; here's Jimmy.
Here is another baritone sax player, that we did not mention, or better, maybe not enough...
’What if I told you there’s a saxman who was there at the birth of bebop—literally, he played on the very first bebop recording—and you’ve never heard of him? And what if I told you his life story is the very archetype of the tragic, drug-addicted jazz musician?’
Leo Parker from an album ’Rollin with Leo’ from 1961. one of two he made as a leader (as far as I know)
Just a question for a potential readers and perhaps not the active participants of the forum... If I would download, lets say 500 albums,that I Iike and would like others to hear or share, are there any peole who would take them, for free, of course ?
Mary_jo, that's the list of an advanced aficionado if you already own those artists, but in case you're inquiring, I'm going to give you my favorites that are performed by those artists.
Paul Desmond: "Desmond Blue", the old one. I've heard there is a new one with strings added, "We don't need no stinkin strings, we want to hear Paul"
"The Wonderful World of Jazz" by John Lewis, has some of my favorite artists performing some of my favorite tunes; you can't go wrong on that one, especially when Benny Golson, one of the artists, wrote, "I Remember Clifford". The rest of the artists are old favorites of mine.
"Kind of Blue"; "So Much Guitar", and "Mercy Mercy Mercy" are albums you would find in almost all aficionados collections.
"Know What I Mean" by Cannonball is most certainly a choice album.
"Winter Moon" by Art Pepper, is one I haven't heard, but it sounds promising.
"Midnight Blue"; "John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman"; "Blue Train" and "Time out" are five star albums that almost all aficionados own.
I don't know what I have by Chet Baker, but all of those sound good. Bill Evans and Stan Getz has to be boss.
Your list is so good, that maybe I should consult you for future purchases.
Enjoy what you have, and tell us what you like best.
o10, you posted the exact Giuffre track that lead me to his music, and that number remains my favorite decades later.
You will certainly remember that I've commented on and posted links to performances from "Jazz on a Summer's Day" several times. Including recently to O'Day's stand out numbers.
Regarding "Flamingoes", Toni was good but I remain loyal to Gil Evans' instrumental version -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUJ8P-aeZhE Regarding Ornette, I remember how radical I considered his music when he came on the scene. Now if I listen to any of those early albums they sound almost conventional. So that's a good perspective on how our tastes and perceptions can change over time.
Rok, I'm listening to Quincy; "sounds" a little like "In living Color", remember the fly girls. The music is nice, but not nice enough to get my shekels.
Ice Tea lives in Beverly Hills; you never see Rappers with canes, mine is brand new, but I guess this still counts me out.
Two records mentioned make for interesting parallels. Two completely different genres and styles of both the music and production values; the focus here being the production values.
Quincy Jones’ “Back On The Block” has been one of my “guilty pleasure” records. It showcases the talents of possibly the best pop producer that ever lived. The fact that he was first and foremost a great jazz composer/orchestrator (and trumpet player) was undoubtedly one the things that make him such a great crossover/pop producer. A master at using all that modern studio techniques had to offer to create funky ear-candy that had a lot of musical integrity. Regardless of what one thinks about the music, what he did with the production serves that music to an extraordinarily high degree. Taken on its own terms “BOTB” is a great and fun record which happens to also be a great audiophile showcase; it SOUNDS great.
”Desmond Blue” is also a great record. One of the first things that I posted here. Desmond’s playing is superb as always. IMO, this record’s production values are also extremely high and the use of a string orchestra and woodwinds in beautiful lush arrangement serve the music extremely well. Very tasteful orchestrations that match Desmond’s playing style beautifully to the degree that Desmond reacts to and shapes some of his improvisations around those orchestrations. This interplay can be heard easily. In that sense the orchestrations are essential for this record. Beautiful record. Btw, I don’t believe that the strings were “added”. The record was conveived with the orchestrations and I don’t believe there is a version without strings.
Alex, keeping the attention in forgotten players. Thanks for the great clips. Forgotten on this thread as well. You posted Leo Parker a couple of years ago when the focus here (short lived as usual) was baritone saxophonists. Good to revisit that player.
Impressive list, mary_jo. From the list it is clear that Alex is a friend.
Mary_jo, "Desmond Blue" was released in 62; Paul's lush horn, and Jim Hall's guitar were quite a combination; especially after midnight, when the street traffic had quieted down, and we were just cruising with no place special to go. That was the time to listen to "Leo Chears", the DJ in the red vest who played the best jazz on radio. That was his theme song.
At that time there was only one "Desmond Blue", but I think now there is another one with enhanced strings. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned the strings.
O-10, aside from the generally better sound quality of the first clip, both clips are identical; the exact same recording, strings and all. I think you may be mistaken about the “enhanced strings version” thing. Gorgeous record and one of my desert island records.
Btw, I’m a little confused by your confusion. You wrote: “I think now there is another one (version) with enhanced strings”. The clip you posted (both, since they are the same) DO have strings. That IS the one (and only) version.
mary_jo, the pairing of Stan Getz with Bill Evans was one of the most logical and beautiful in jazz. Two of the most sensitive and introspective players to play this music; the two together was magic. Their first recording together from 1964 (I think), simply “Stan Getz and Bill Evans” was a studio recording and also a beautiful record. I first heard this record years ago when it was reissued as part of a two record set. It was paired with another Getz recording which I would strongly recommend; this one features Chick Corea instead Bill Evans. That recording with Chick Corea is the highlight of that reissue set and the interplay between Getz and Corea makes for an interesting contrast to that with Evans. Gorgeous recording which makes the set one of my desert island favorites. One of Stan Getz’ very best.
O-10, there was no malice intended in my post; and you did ask me. So, please, no need for defensiveness nor sarcasm. I am genuinely curious ‘though about what it is you heard that was different in those two clips. Please tell us; perhaps I’m missing something. Btw, I believe acman3’s comment was in reference to Rok’s question re Ornette Coleman.
I enjoyed both links pryso, thank you and yes you have noticed it well, Chet seems to appear more often on the list I’ve posted. It is not that I do not admire other giants and not that I don’t appreciate other instruments besides the trumpet (after all, the instruments are just the means through which the player’s expression flows) but when I hear a trumpet in jazz, my heart starts to pump a bit faster.
A small child tells to his mother: When I grow up, I will be a trumpeter. A mother responds to him: Well my dear, you know you can’t do both.
And this is how I see Chet when he plays, as an adult man who nurtures his inner child in everything he does, and at some point refusing to grow up. But this is just ’my version of Chet’ of course.
However and as I have already said, this does not prevent me from liking others. For instance, Peppe in his recordings goes beyond words...
Desmond in blue, have heard it before, great record.
Frogman : ), I was hoping one would not notice it, but it would be almost impossible not to agree with the Alex’s taste in music, since he posts beautiful music.
Once again, thank you all for the support, jafant, thank you too.
Here is another sax player, Leo Wright. He made numerous albums, this one I have, with him as a leader, Kenny Burrell is on guitar. Cant find any more clips of this album on ytube, but I think he deserves attention
They are a lot of very good jazzmen here in Twin Cities that just don’t want to live in NYC , Chicago, or LA . Not a matter of talent just a lack of wanting to run in the rat race .
I have that CD. They sure were in a hurry. But Dizzy always seemed to be in a rush. (too many notes?) :) Never did like the Tone of Dizzy's trumpet. But, he is one artist I think I need to look at again. You reach a point in buying Jazz, that you stop and ask yourself, "now, who did I miss". I think I missed a lot of Dizzy. Gotta go back.
Killer bebop session and definitely a must-have record. One of the best and a testament to Stan Getz’ greatness; he could do it all. The story behind the title has nothing to do with any kind of distinction between musician and listener. Rather, it was to suggest a distinction between the real players (musicians) and the wannabes. Bebop was, to a great extent, a “test” of a jazz player’s “stuff”. With the blinding fast tempos and intricate melodies many bebop tunes posed a great challenge for players and not all of them could pull it off credibly. In fact, during jam sessions players would sometimes call tunes that were especially intricate and would count them off at really fast tempos in order to keep lesser players from joining the jam session. The title’s meaning is akin to that of this other record; one of my favorite jazz record titles as well as favorite record: Hank Mobley’s “No Room For Squares”:
acman3, Same way that great artists in every genre have become great in prisons, whore houses , utter poverty etc etc etc etc, by putting your mind , body and soul into your music . Simple logic determines with 8 billion folks on this planet we have no idea who is the best and if such a thing even exists .
I agree with Ps, ’cause a statement that a player is not good just because he or she is unknown to a wider audience is in the best case pure generalization, a stereotype by which one underestimates someone’s work. I’ll quote Ps: "If something is "undiscovered" it is precisely that."
Very nice Stan Getz & Chick Corea, Frogman, thank you. Chick Corea is new to me.
Pryso, Sandoval also new to me...
On Dizzy:
I was never the fan of Dizzy but if God himself tells me that this is not good:
Can you please tell me who are the other players with Dizzy on this one?
’Cause I always seem to forget to mention other players when mentioning ’the star’ and this is so wrong of me ’cause everybody else in the process contribute in making the main man, main.
Some thoughts on the subject of the “forgotten” or “undiscovered” musician:
I think that there is at least some truth in just about every comment so far re the reasons why some players remain obscure; but not every reason cited is relevant to what I think the core question here is. For example:
Yes, it is true that some players are “young and just getting known”; but the focus of this discussion is mostly musicians from the past who stopped being young a long time ago and had ample opportunity (years) to be better known.
Yes, it is also true that there are and have always been musicians who have wanted to stay home and not go to “the big city”. There are many fine players in towns other than the biggest cities. However, I think we are talking about musicians who make, or are capable of making, significant statements and not just musicians who are good or very good. Musicians are each other’s toughest critics. Just as they can be ruthless by keeping lesser players from playing during jam sessions, they are extremely committed to seeking out those players who, by reputation, are known to be truly great. The news of the young phenom in “small town, USA” who is truly “saying something” new and unique spreads like wildfire in the jazz world; consequently, it is highly unlikely that this player will remain obscure for long.
Yes, it is also true that because of the nature of this music, music in which interaction with other musicians is a more important component than most other genres, being around other players who will challenge and raise the bar is a vital ingredient for becoming a player that is truly great. Being the biggest fish in a small pond is unlikely to result in being one of the big fish in the ocean. Moreover, I think that a player’s willingness and emotional drive to be where the action is and put up with the difficulties that come along with that says something important about the ultimate potential of that player.
Now, let’s put all this in a certain perspective. A quick internet search of “the most underrated jazz musicians” resulted in several lists (opinion, of course) of the top ten most underrated:
I am sure that it will be obvious that what is striking about the names on these lists is that with one or two exceptions all of the musicians mentioned have been well covered, or at least mentioned, on this thread. The point is that when assigning “Underrated” status we are digging pretty deep here. Johnny Griffin underrated? Really?!
For me the bottom line is that it is easy to be seduced by the romance of “the undiscovered/underappreciated artist”. Have there been players who are worth hearing and who didn’t get their due? Well, worth hearing, yes; and there have been several posted here thanks mostly to Alex. That didn’t get their due? That’s a little more complicated, imo. What does that mean, exactly? One of Alex’s recent posts was trumpeter Don Sleet. Probably my favorite of all of his “forgotten/undiscovered” players. I was glad to hear and learn about this player. Is Don Sleet a player that brought anything new to jazz or shaped it in any significant way? I don’t think so. Do I want to add Don Sleet recordings to my collection when there are still so many records by Blue Mitchell, Art Farmer, Fats Navarro and others that I still don’t have? Unlikely. Have there been musicians of the artistic caliber of a Satchmo, Bird, Miles, Sonny Rollins, Trane, Bill Evans and, yes, Ornette Coleman, or even the “tier” below (Johnny Griffin) that slipped through the cracks and were never discovered or have been forgotten? Not a chance in hell.
To begin with, jazz is near the bottom of the list in regard to popularity of music genres; this thread is an example of that, it's at the bottom of the list on "audiogon".
Some have given more reasons than you can shake a stick at for that fact, but the fact remains.
Most of the people you named are well represented and appreciated in "Aficionados collections".
The only way they could be more widely appreciated is to play Rock, Pop, or Rap; but then it wouldn't be jazz.
The people you mentioned are very well known to me, and have been appreciated for most of my life. While we are introducing them to "newbies", they are well represented in our collections, as old aficionados.
The fact that jazz is a very individualistic art, also means that the people who appreciate it are very individualistic as well.
Out of the artists on that list of 6, "Blossom Dearie" is the only one I question. Although I have her in my collection, I wouldn't rush out and buy one of her albums; maybe there is a reason "Blossom Dearie" is under appreciated.
I guess 5 out of 6 according to me, isn't too bad, but Earl Hines is the only one that I could appreciate that I haven't listened to lately; sort of "nostalgic" he is, and today is my day for nostalgia.
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