Home Demo Faceoff: Nordost / Audioquest / Transparent
nyev
Thank You for the comprehensive follow up. Good to read that some Companies delivered on the goods for participation. Odd. that Transparent did not want to loan out an OPUS cable/cord? This company must be doing very well financially.
Shunyata has really taken off as a serious Cable player. It appears the shoot out was a success. Happy Listening! |
@jafant , thanks for asking. I closed this off in related threads (Shunyata Omega QR vs AudioQuest Dragon HC), but I’ll summarize here. First, Transparent may make great cables but both Shunyata and AudioQuest I found to be WAY more customer focused with unbelievably prompt and friendly responses. Beyond my expectations. Not so much with Transparent. Both AudioQuest and Shunyata had new top of the line power cords for me to try with no commitment whatsoever to purchase, simply because they had no demos currently available. Transparent refused to do this and had no demos of the Opus cord I wanted to try. Shunyata in particular - Richard - super friendly, helpful, and approachable. In the end I thought both The Dragon HC and the Omega QR were equally good - albeit VERY different. The Dragon had a bit more energy and bass engagement, with a drier sound. The Omega QR had this lush, exquisitely smooth sound that immersed you in a more “luxurious” jungle of a soundstage. I could easily be happy with the sound of either cord depending on my mood or what I’m listening to. Both cords had awesome detail retrieval with a great front to back depth to the sound. This shootout I think was unique for me as all shootouts I’ve done before yielded a clear winner in terms of sound. Not so in this case. But in the end I went with the Dragon HC because the Omega QR didn’t create a snug connection with my Diablo 300 amplifier. The Omega QR comes with a tacky plastic shim to tighten the fit. I expect they do this in order to make the plug smaller to accommodate a certain brand of equipment? Who knows, but even with the shim it was a loose connection with my amp and it would easily disconnect with the slightest nudge. It’s possible that it is my Gryphon amp’s fault and not the cord, but I don’t have this issue with the Dragon. So that is where I ended up on power cords. I am continuing to enjoy my Valhalla 2’s every bit as much. Except they made my system more revealing and exposed my AC power noise that goes away late at night! That launched me on a quest to solve this. Currently testing an Audioquest Niagara 5000 and also considering the 7000 or a Torus RM20. And going all out and installing dedicated lines. And bought an Innuos PhoenixNET isolation switch (shipping now). And an Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker. And finally, a used perfect condition pair of B&W 802 D2’s (Shipping now)…. Good thing I sold my car and a whole slew of things I don’t care much about to pay for all of this… Just need to complete the electrical work and figure out the conditioner and that is it! Oh yeah, and very likely two Nordost Valhalla 2 USB cables - I have demos being mailed to me shortly! After all the upgrades I realized that the generic USB cables that came with my Innuos reclocker easily beats my Audioquest Diamond USB cables. High frequencies are far less open with the Diamonds. I don’t think I could hear this difference when my system was less resolving. That will be it because I will have used up all the money I made from selling stuff! Totally worth it though. Took many years to pinpoint the sound I was looking for and I think I’ve figured things out, finally. I couldn’t live with most gear out there even if it was free, most stuff just sounds not quite right to me. There is no harshness or tonal issues in my system to compensate for. Now it’s simply a matter of making everything as revealing as possible, and that’s it. Really happy with all the recent upgrades and it’s made such a massive difference. The speakers will arrive last… |
I have all Heimdall 2 power cables. 4 of them to power my system. I love them, but wonder how much better the Frey 2 and Tyr 2 can get. In recent years I chose to get the QRT products instead of higher end Nordost cable line. The QB8 connected to a Qkore 1 is a must have if you are using Nordost power cables. That is the foundation and without it you are missing out big time. |
After enjoying my system with a more reasonably priced Clarus Crimson bi-wire setup, I’m finally upgrading to the Nordost Valhalla 2’s and also possibly to a Transparent XL power cord to my Diablo 300 amp (I will test the power cord first). the Clarus Crimson biwire speaker cables are really great and I highly recommend them. Quite musical in that they are not analytical or sterile, good bass and soundstaging. They might be a bit on the slow side, and could be a tad too “polite”. Nonetheless I’d still put them at the top of the list for anyone considering speaker cables at this level or even above.
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Thanks for the great information. I'd like som advise! I have a small ful Burmester setup, CD/Int.amp/speakers. I also bought som old used Valhalla speaker cables that the shop sold me cheap , but everything sounds so dark and deep and not very transparent. I even tried som Red Dawn speaker cables and it sounded better. My interconnect between CD and Int. Amp is red dawn. I wonder really if switching to Frey cables across the board really would spike the listening experience. I wonder really how good are the old Valhalla cables? |
nyev, I don't believe in absolutes and submit cables are system dependent. That being said, as you know I have Clarus Crimson speakers cables, but the single edition, not bi-wired. Although we have different systems, your findings mirror mine. I have compared Crimsons to many speaker cables in my system and overall prefer Crimson. I did find Audioquest Firebird @ $14K list for an 8' pair to be ever so slightly cleaner/detailed, but preferred the Crimson regarding every other sonic parameter. I think preference plays a significant factor in cable selection. If one has a preference where the sound is forward, they will not like Clarus cables. Funny thing is after hearing Audioquest Hurricane power cords in my system, I never tried Clarus power cords. |
I've been waiting until my Clarus Crimson cables and power cord have completed 200 hours of burn-in to share my thoughts. I'm at 185 hours currently.... The last 15 hours are proving difficult as I have guests staying (including my infant nephew) over the next week. Some say volume doesn't matter for burn in, just provided there is current flow, but in my opinion I don't think anyone truly understands what is occurring during burn-in or whether volume matters or not. So I am waiting until I can play at least at a moderate volume - it is going slowly now! While I've read that these cables sound terrible before 200 hours, to the extent that some reviewers thought something was wrong with their stereo, that was not my experience at all. While they sounded great at 0 hours, I did notice a very noticeable "papery" quality to the upper mid/lower treble. It made high-hats sound very, very different - very meaty sounding. Didn't sound bad, but just not natural. After the first 24 hours this effect was entirely gone. At 185 hours, these cables sound phenomenal, especially for the price I paid for them. The difficulty is, too much time has passed and I can only base my judgement on what I currently hear, and comparing with how I recall the other cables I tested earlier in this thread sounded. I'll start with what I currently hear without comparisons. First thing that stands out is how fluid the entire frequency spectrum is - everything is smoothly integrated, yet tones are still distinct and separate. The second thing that stands out is how free flowing and effortless these cables sound. The third is how great the soundstaging is - instruments are big and well-formed across what seems to me to be a wider than normal soundstage. This was noticeable right out of the box, but after extended burn-in, an amazing depth of soundstage emerged too. These cables are also very easy to listen to - no harshness, not analytical, and this is across all sorts of music that has a tendency for harshness on some equipment. Sibilants produce a pleasing sssss versus a harsh shhhhhh. I've read that these cables are made with multiple types of copper that are each optimized for different frequencies - maybe this accounts for the overall smoothness and free-flowing effect. Now, I'll attempt to compare against what I remember in my favorite pairing from my last barrage of tests, the Transparent Reference power cord with the Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables. Please take some of this with a grain of salt, as I mentioned the prior tests were some time ago now. First the speaker cables: The Clarus speaker cables are smoother, more integrated, more natural. The Clarus' soundstage was also very, very impressive and I think topped the Valhalla 2's, in both horizontal positioning and also depth. The Valhalla 2's were more forward with the midrange (while still being warm at the same time - which I really liked), and were faster than anything I'd heard. The Valhalla 2's had a hair more detail, this I am absolutely sure of based on listening to a specific passage in a song I use to test detail retrieval. In the end both speaker cables were very pleasing to listen to, and both had areas they performed better in than the other. I could be happy living with either. While I really do enjoy the forward-yet-warm mids of the Valhalla 2's, I do wonder if eventually I might think this is too much of a good thing. But I really, really enjoyed that effect as it made music very satisfying to listen to.... But the Valhalla 2's cost almost $15K more than what I paid for the Clarus Crimson's (which I managed to get at a steal of a price buying direct from a distributor), so, that's a factor for sure. It is very possible that if I heard them side by side I would lean towards the Valhalla 2's more. I guess I will never know, because right now I am very happy with the Clarus Crimson's. The integration and perfect balance of tones is just magical at times. On to the power cords: This is where things start to get different. I think the Transparent Reference power cord offered more solid, well defined, and detailed bass than the Clarus Crimson power cord. It is also possible that the slight missing detail I noted above is actually attributed to switching from the Transparent Reference power cord to the Clarus Crimson power cord, and is not related to the speaker cables. I'm totally happy with the current full Clarus Crimson combination, but when I get around to it I think I may want to get a demo Transparent Reference XL power cord to see how the bass and detail change - I have a pretty strong suspicion this combo will be a good pairing based on my prior results. In the meantime, I'm very happy with the sound, with a bit more burn in to go! My Gryphon Diablo 300 sounds fabulous with these cables. Highly recommended, and great value for money (as far as cables go I suppose), but if you consider the Clarus Crimsons I'd suggest experimenting with the power cable as I feel like there are gains to be had there going to a different cord. I read a pro review that seemed to come to the same conclusion - they raved about the Crimson speaker cables, but had a bit of an average response to the power cord versus others. It's not bad, but with others you can have a bit more defined and solid bass and possibly more detail across the spectrum. One final point: I realized I didn't mention in this post that I have the bi-wire editions of the Clarus Crimson speaker cables. Not sure how much of a difference this makes, but because I was able to purchase these cables at over 60% below list price, I thought why not. |
The Nordost cable construction seems to favor inductance over capacitance, that is the geometry reduces the capacitance to a minimum but my guess it may have higher inductance relatively. I haven't heard it personally myself but high inductance cable tend to favor speed, transparency and may be a bit bright on the treble. |
The Frey 2’s were actually delivered a highly enjoyable and satisfying presentation at a fraction of the price. However I did perceive a noticeable lack of midrange clarity and air with the Frey 2’s vs the Valhalla 2’s. And a hair less speed with the Frey 2’s, but the Valhalla 2’s are know for being stupidly fast. Whether that difference is worth the cost is up to the listener I guess. For me, I can’t be happy with the Frey’s knowing they are filtering out some of what my Diablo 300 is capable of delivering, even to my fairly modest speakers! |
It's not like you don't have enough on your cable plate but take a few minutes and go over to the PS Audio forum's cable thread and read up on the Iconoclast cables. It's a long thread but mostly worth reading. The cables are built by Belden and assembled by Blue Jeans. They have a very good loaner policy and I've tried both their interconnects and speaker cables with good results. I'm currently auditioning their OF speaker cable and they compare very favorably to my Transparent Ref MM2 cables tuned for my Boulder amp and Magico speakers at a fraction of the cost. |
Thanks! Will be finding out the ETA on the Clarus cables shortly. I ended up ordering the power cord as well, as it is just too cheap to pass up. Weird how this loophole allows me to buy direct from the distributor at prices dealers get - I think it is because there no Clarus dealers in Canada, but there IS a Clarus distributor based here. Eye-opening how much the dealer markup is, but not a surprise. Dealers aren't selling daily to a large base of consumers, so they need to make margins to keep doors open. In the end it is as if I am getting a discount of more than 60% lower than list price, on a cable loom that is supposedly comparable (and some say preferable) to cables costing $15-20K. Not to mention Clarus dealers were just notified of the massive (50%) price increase on Clarus products that takes effect June 1st. Worst case scenario, if I like the Audience (or other) cables better, I can sell the Clarus used and hopefully not lose too much thanks to my significant discount, and thanks to the price hike next week. |
rshad, yes more tests are coming but not 100% sure when yet. So here are the latest developments: -After trying to line up tests of the Clarus Crimson cables (purchase with 100% money back return policy) from a US-based dealer, I realized the total price including taxes and duty was going to be more than double the cost of buying it directly through the Clarus NA distributor. The Clarus dealer actually suggested that at that price I should just buy it blind. So against my (and everyone else's) better judgement, that's what I did. I am going to treat it like a lottery - if it ends up working out, then I just "won" a few thousand bucks. If it doesn't work out, well, I can sell and lose probably a bit. But my purchase price is less than 50% what it should be, I believe because I am buying directly from a distributor rather than a dealer. As I said above, while this isn't the wisest approach the odds are pretty good these will work well, as NO ONE has ever said anything bad about these across a wide variety of gear. And many prefer these from the WAY more pricey Nordost offerings. So we'll see. Will take 200 hours to burn in however. -I am nevertheless going to continue with my demo test of the Audience au24 SX cables, from thecableco. I can always find something else from them to put my 5% deposit (that they require for the demos) towards, if I prefer the Clarus. I know this isn't the wisest approach, but the Clarus were such a deal that this isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work out. I should indicate that I'm still debating what to do about the power cord - whether to purchase one or not. |
nyev, that's good. Just make sure they are burnt-in, power cords can take 300-500 hours. Yeah, it becomes even more fun when you mix different brands. I got lucky with that. I mix Purist, Tchernov and WyWires interconnects, power cords are Purist and Custom Power Cord Company Top Gun. Could I do better ? Of course, but most likely it would be much more expensive and some cables are impossible to find used. I stopped playing with inexpensive cables, I mean about under $800 new, none of them were good enough, but I don't go too far either. My current kind of unwritten rule - I don't pay more than $1k for cables, either new or used. But I have modest equipment so it is already very high for this system. |
Cables have to be auditioned in your own system for validity. They all sound different in different systems. I tried many cables and found ones that worked for ME in MY system. Put the same cables in another system and the result might be very different. Sometimes things are really not even be logical. I had Audioquest top silvers which I thought were quite wonderful. I replaced them with Audioquest Wm F. Lowe signature and thought the difference was surely a back step. I had Wireworld, Kimber, Cardas (the worst in my system) etc. I wound up with a loom that others might very well think it shouldn't work as well as they do....yet here I am. |
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Inna, The N.A. Gryphon distributor replied to my email in minutes and indicated they will coordinate getting demo Gryphon Power Cords and Speaker cables to my dealer for me to test. Do you know the list price of the Gryphon cords, by chance? They have their upper Reference line and also their lower-end Headline series. Hoping the Reference line is about the same cost as the other stuff I'm testing. |
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Also, regarding the Tyr 2, I’d probably just go for the Valhalla 2 over Tyr 2, if I was already about to spend that much. But hoping the Audience will come through and be what kind an looking for at a lower price when I get to test. Im also thinking of just going ahead with the Clarus Crimson purchase, with the ability to return. Yes I will need to pay import duty and taxes, but after researching I found I can get these fees back from Canada but I need to submit a form and prove I returned the goods. Pain in the butt but I feel like I won’t have evaluated all possibilities otherwise. And, the Clarus cost is going way up on June 1st. |
I would really like to test the Gryphon power cord and cables. My dealer said that wasn’t possible. Guessing Gryphon’s NA distributor is not able or willing to facilitate the demo. Maybe I’ll try contacting the distributor directly. But I’m not holding my breath on being able to try these in North America. Gryphon is one of the handful of companies that are equally respected for their source and amplifier components as well as their transducers. So it is reasonable to assume they make good cables too. |
The High Fidelity cables are the WORST I have ever heard. I am a beta tester for GroverHuffman cables and have found that in multiple systems, they sound BAD. Not good and not just mediocre. I've heard Nordost, Cardas, Shuyata, Transparent, Synergistic Research, Wireworld, Triode, Kimber, Audioquest, Kubala Sosna, Jorma et. al. Sometimes the higher end cables require matching to components when they sounded good, other times, I heard mediocre sound from high end Transparent and Nordost. No, by far the worst was High Fidelity cables. Huge magnets in the signal pathway are a no, no in audio. |
For power cables the best I have ever heard thus far: STAGE 3 CONCEPTS http://www.stage3concepts.com/ www.aaudioimports.com/ShowBrand.asp?hBrand=13 HIGH FIDELITY CABLES http://www.highfidelitycables.com/products/power/ct1urh/ http://www.highfidelitycables.com/products/power/pro/ HB CABLE DESIGN / POWER SLAVE - Power Distributor http://www.hb-cable-design.com/1_english/ps_2.html |
You may want to check these out. Under the radar, Fantastic product - may be the last cables you ever invest in. THALES http://www.tonarm.ch/ http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowBrand.asp?hBrand=30 I started with Audioquest when I first started this hobby. I moved into some Nordost products, and found them to be very detailed but limited bass. I then invested in Transparent cables. They were my go to for years until I was introduced THALES. I never looked back. A fraction of the price of everything you auditioned -. IMHO - definitely worth checking out. |
Fun thread to read and thanks for sharing your detailed a/b comparisons. I agree with post above that Tyr2 can be the sweet spot in the line-up for some. Per my communications with Nordost:
Tyr 2 is based on V1 but a little better. We changed the winding of the mono-filament so the conductor doesn't spiral anymore and the cable is about 10-15% better than V1.
My cable swapping has led me to a mix currently of Frey2, Tyr2, and Odin1 PCs, Tyr2 ICs and V2 speaker cables. I really enjoyed the added warmth and openness that the Frey2s and Tyr2s introduced (had moved up from Red Dawns and Heimdall2s). I do not feel my system lacks bass at the moment. Would have loved to have experimented with an entire 'loom' of say V2s, but unfortunately, could not. |
Thanks All, I am definitely taking everyone’s input into consideration. The Valhalla’s are actually quite a bit lower than why Larry quoted after the dealer discount. Also I only need 6ft per side so that helps. But due to input from others I am being cautious and testing more cables from Audience and Synergistic, to see if I can achieve the same result at a lower cost. Like I said up-front, all cables cost too much! But maybe the Valhalla 2 prices are a bit too much. Hopefully I will get good results with the other options. I still have the AudioQuest Firebird biwire demos and have been listening more to them. Which are actually the priciest combo I’ve tested, in the biwire configuration way more than Valhalla 2 in single wire configuration. Which is not a fair price comparison but just to show that more dollars doesn’t translate directly to improved sound. The AudioQuest cables are capable but I just can’t get past the feeling of sluggishness and lack of high frequency openness.... Also they are far and away the most difficult to work with of any cable I’ve tried. They are big and unwieldy. |
Not to muddy the waters of this excellent report but add a suggestion to others and their budgets... there has been no mention of the fine Nordost Tyr 2 model. My dealer, who has a great ear and listens to this stuff all day long, characterized the Tyr 2 as the equivalent of the Valhalla 1. It'a construction is very similar to Valhalla and may be the value purchase of the Nordost high end. I've ended up with AQ's Hurricane power (after my personal shootout of eight power cords from my collection, Cable Company and the Nordost dealer up to $4K) and Nordost's Tyr 2 speaker cables. IC's are Wireworld solid silver. All of this is system dependent. I'm running Conrad-Johnson's best Pre and Power with a dCS Debussy DAC. All good. Thanks and enjoy! |
