Fuses

Good luck with your brass rods. 
I am finished with this conversation as well.
Thank you

The best fuse is no fuse, we already know this, but most equipment does not allow for the installation of breakers (and breakers also have their issues)

This is not a breaker it takes the place of the fuse with a solid brass rod (No fuse then). just like bypassing the fuse altogether. Best you can get by your views for a couple of dollars🤦‍♂️
https://ibb.co/KqV3hNb

@millercarbon  what is your opinion on bypassing crossover capacitors?

I can't take George seriously anymore, would love an answer from someone that has actually tried the stuff they are talking about. 

I am thinking of bypassing a tweeter cap with a .01uf Duelund Silver foil cast. 

That'll work great. The way I think of it, the reason the better caps are better is they are exceptionally smooth and consistent in the way they charge and discharge. This allows them to pass a signal that is both detailed and extremely liquid smooth at the same time. Where lesser caps sort of spark in quantum steps instead of a smooth curve. Large caps of high quality that can do this are very expensive. But they can deliver this smooth fast response across all kinds of dynamic demands. The little filter or bypass cap like you are talking can't do much for the larger swings. But most of what we hear in fine detail is very micro-dynamic swings that the little cap can handle. So in effect the bypass cap gives you the detail you need to make the fine stuff sound a lot better and as long as the big cap "below" is pretty good quality you wind up with a lot of the Deulund big cap sound for a lot less money.

I used this in my crossovers using Deulund CuTn to bypass Jantzen Alumen Z, which are quite good caps but not Deulund level, but with the Deulund bypass they get darn close for a lot less money.

I don't have time or money to painstakingly burn in and compare all these different caps so I go by the info on sites like the home made hifi cap comparison. Worked great for me so that is what I recommend, unless you have someone better to go by.

Thank you for the reply. @millercarbon 
I have some Mundorfs Silver in oil on my tweeters, so I should stick with Duelund Silver foils? Or maybe add a bit more color and go with Tinned copper?
I have tried bypassing with. 1uf caps, teflons, and Duelund Copper foils on the mids, didn’t work out that well to be honest.
But from what I gather .01uf is the best value to go with, no matter the value of the crossover.

Told you already, any one that says it a good idea, has no idea.

By-passing powersupply or voltage rail caps is a good idea, but it’s not a good idea to bypass caps that are in the signal path as they will have different time constants, and smear at frequencies where they are both doing work.
Alway use the best quality "single cap" in the signal path.

Cheers George

Sorry George,
I can’t take anything you say seriously. You have blown all your credibility with me, and at this point I am more inclined to thinking that bypassing capacitors is a good idea just because you stand so vehemently against it.
I’ll wait for @millercarbon to chime in.

I haven't directly compared to be able to say for sure. Tinned copper are what I used based on HHF reviews. Don't quote me, it seems unlikely, but 1uf might not have worked because "maybe" that is enough to shift response. It seems like an insignificant amount. But I was careful to keep all my values exactly the same as stock so as to avoid any risk of that. It could be .01uf works because it is enough to help detail without affecting crossover points at all. Just a hunch.

They were 0.1uf
I tried 3 different capacitors.
From everything I have read, .01uf is the value that is best used for bypassing.
Larger values can cause coherence issues, which is exactly what I experienced.
I’ll give them a shot, hopefully they work out.
Thanks for your input.

P.S. @millercarbon Take care of yourself and your family, things are about to get pretty rough out there. 

Sorry George,
I can’t take anything you say seriously. You have blown all your credibility with me, and at this point I am more inclined to thinking that bypassing capacitors is a good idea just because you stand so vehemently against it.

Don’t be sorry, it’s obvious from that reply, that you have no idea, don’t wish to know what’s correct, and only hope what your dreaming up will come true.

Check out any hi-end equipment, amps or speakers, dacs, phono stages etc etc any sources and SEE IF ANY CAPS IN THE SIGNAL PATH are by-passed with another different cap. And you’ll find the answer is no, as to use 2 different time constant components in parallel in the signal path will only create distortion/smearing of the signal.

The only time this will not happen is if both caps are identical in all parameters, make, voltage and uf.
And you won’t get anyone here that knows what’s what, saying anything other than that.

Good luck🙏

georgehifi-

Sorry George,
I can’t take anything you say seriously. You have blown all your credibility

George posted this. So even he gets it. Please go away now. Please.

Seriously. Please. Go away.

VTL and the old Marantz both use (frequency collection (bypass)) caps, I’ve seen more than one older Mac with FC caps too. .01 usually. Doesn’t change anything but ADDs a twinkle if you add one or two in parallel.

A really good PIO with a FC cap that’s a copper foil (no oil) or teflons.

I like V-Cap.

Teflons and silver foil both are like razors, I don’t care who makes them..
Takes forever to break them in. But they are really worth it.. Copper foil, or with oil. I’m not so sure. I’ve been running them for a while.. We’ll see. Teflon/alu foil, copper or Silver foil caps.. $$$$. They are non magnetic too.

I match the voltage too on the FC cap. That can cause issues in a passive crossover, I’ve done that and it does cause a timing issue.

200vac with a 600vac cap won’t work correctly.. 600 and a 630 is a lot better.. 200 and 200 :-)

Thanks for the info. Much Appreciated.
I just got (4) .01uf Duelund Tinned copper foils. I’ll bypass both the mid and the tweeter caps on my speakers.
Sadly no Duelund Silver foils were available anywhere, they might have been the better match with my Mundorf Silver in oils.
All the capacitors in my mids crossover are 600v, tweeters are 1200v and Duelund bypasses are 600v.
Fingers crossed. 

Can’t see the forest for the trees???
If you don’t believe me.
Believe this, someone from Audiocircle who tried by-passing a quality cap in the single path (also known as a coupling cap) to see what he got, and there’s many more articles to read about it on the net if you bother to search, and a well known one it by Doug Self in his book.

Currently I have 1 uF Clarity MR caps, bypassed with .01 Jupiter Copper Foils (into 100000 ohm impedance), I added the Jupiter bypass as an experiment to see if the more expensive caps make a difference, and they do.
So now I have to decide what way to go forward, I have a strong belief that bypassing coupling caps is a bad idea, as the two capacitors will have a time difference, and so signal passing through one cap will be phase differentiated from signal passing through the other cap, right?

Therefore: perhaps it is better to have a single high quality cap at 1 uF and no bypass at all? Is 1 uF really big enough (into 100000 ohms) or do I really need a bigger cap to be sure deep bass remains in phase?

(1uf into 100kohms (100,000ohms) is fine as it’s -3db at 1.5hz)

Like I said some just don’t want to believe, they just want to believe their own dreams and don’t want them shattered or take anything in that questions it.

Cheers George

Unlike you George, I am okay with trying new things out.
If you are right about bypassing capacitors, Trust me I will be the first one to come back here and tell you that.
As I have already said, the .1uf caps did not sound good as bypasses, they muddled up the sound on my speakers, I was not expecting that to be the case.
I am not interested in being right for the sake of being right, I am only interested in things that are true. So if what you are saying is true, I will readily offer my apologies for not believing you.

Fine, I'm hoping what I’ve said helps others trying to do the same. As I've said it many times on Audiogon. 

Cheers George

I added the Jupiter bypass as an experiment to see if the more expensive caps make a difference, and they do.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What about this part george?

They do make a difference, he just suggest a single cap and continues to ask questions, look at what he wrote.

ALL question marks? NOT Statements.. He is ASKING if it might be better, or if it might change the timing.. I say use the same voltage and it won’t. :-)

There is more than one mad scientist around you know.

Regards

Well all I can say to you is, forest and trees, you can twist it to suit yourself, and that will be your problem then, and no one else’s.

@georgehifi 

“ By-passing powersupply or voltage rail caps is a good idea, but it’s not a good idea to bypass caps that are in the signal path as they will have different time constants, and smear at frequencies where they are both doing work.
Alway use the best quality "single cap" in the signal path.”

If economical or physically practicable ^^^^ This ^^^^^ Is quite correct

 

Adding to the list of builders who do bypass caps in the signal path are deHavilland and Danny over at GR Research. Both are big advocates of bypassing with the right combo in signal positions. I agree 100% based on my builds and mods. It can work very well! It can also go south if not careful.
Certain combinations/brands work great together and some don’t. Only experience and trial and error prove this out. For example, Vcap Odams up to 2.2 uf or so combine wonderfully with Vcap Cutf .01uf caps. Magical combo really. I would not bypass larger cap values of say 12 - 100uf with a .01uf bypass cap. I think here you may get the “nervous” type of sound some refer to. Like most things audio this whole question of bypass caps in the signal path cannot be answered in one broad brush statement of never or always.

So just put the Gold Plated OCC Copper Neotech fuse into my DAC.
3 strands .1mm (5x20mm) Filled with SiO2/mineral oil mix.
Early report, the pianos and Cymbals really stand out to me, timbre is like a romantic Jazz club vibe, sweet and full, but not lacking in resolution one bit.
I really like it at first listen, but have to do many A/B tests before I can make any final judgements.

The Fuse not exploding in my face is a win to say the least :)

@yuviarora

The Fuse not exploding in my face is a win to say the least :) 

If this is a risk that is known and one which you are prepared to take, what risk then exists to your equipment should things not work as anticipated?  

How much are you prepared to spend on repairs?  I have been reading some reports on equipment being damaged by incorrect application of fuses, that's all.  One report that is perhaps one of the better known rants is that by Roger Modjeski at audiocircle, from quite some years ago now.

I work in industrial Automation (or used to).
I also have a ton of experience working on Audio equipment, and my comment about the fuse blowing up was just a silly attempt at forum humor.
I can build/repair anything.... so not really worried about that.
Having said that, I have kept the fuse at the lower end of my required rating, and I might have played it a little too safe. My next prototype will be a thicker filament.
The fuse rating of copper that I am using as a template is in open air, the ceramic fuse cylinder also acts as a heat trap. .
It’ll be interesting to see if it sounds different than the one I have already made.

OK, thankyou, I'm glad that its clarified that you are very experienced.  I think that is important.

The ceramic build having heat trap protection, that's interesting.  Is this good?  My lay intuition suggests that it might be good if any heat was dissipated.  Obviously not.

Anyway, on the ACME site they say that ceramic may be inappropriate for amps that do not have inrush protection, or the fuse may be "destroyed".   How do you know if an amp (solid state) has inrush protection?  ACME suggest using a stock (Littelfuse?  they don't say) ceramic fuse first and just wait and see....if it is destroyed?

https://www.revolutionpower.com/acme-audio-labs-large-silver-ceramic-fuse-cryogenic-treated

I am not going to pretend that this strikes me as particularly robust advice coming from a manufacturer of premium fuses for use in quite expensive equipment..

@noske  Most Solid state amps have inrush protection, it is tube amps that you have to usually worry about, and that is why people use slowblow fuses for them.
If a ceramic fuse blows on your solid state amp, it  won't damage the amplifier, you  would just have to go a size up and test it out to get to the required functional rating. 

@yuviarora

Thanks, OK, that's good to know, very good and comforting general advice.  (anecdote - my SS amp manual is inconsistent anyway  - on one page it says 1.5A, on another page 2A.  I use 2A.)

Yes, I had kinda guessed that about amps with glass, as my tube amp has the slowblow fuse as part of the IEC socket enclosure before any possibility of it being able to be manipulated by anything.

My vote goes to George for electronics. MC makes some simple mistakes like series and parallel resistors... The best fuse is no fuse, agreed. Instantaneous CB unless your trying to protect your multimeter...

Okay.....soooo I am in the camp of not bypassing signal capacitors. At least in my application, they caused issues in both positions.
Sound got smeared in the mids, and the timbre change in the tweeter position came with a similar smudging of sound. The bypass capacitors really affected transparency in my system, and affected depth of stage.
I only had them in for 3 or so hours, but I didn’t enjoy any part of this installation and have taken them back out.
@georgehifi you were right, at least as it happens to be the case in my application.
I am now in the camp for installing the single best possible quality cap that you can use in the signal path.

Now having said that, I had voltage imbalances in my tweeter position, 1200v vs 600v (big cap vs bypass)
and mids 115.8uf capacitors bypassed with a .01uf foil capacitor.
Neither position sounded good.

fiesta75-

MC makes some simple mistakes like series and parallel resistors... 

Ah yes the ellipsis, three dots that usually indicates the intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section of a text being quoted. Care to run that through your MDS decoder ring and translate into a full English sentence, please?

Okay.....soooo I am in the camp of not bypassing signal capacitors. At least in my application, they caused issues in both positions.
Sound got smeared in the mids, and the timbre change in the tweeter position came with a similar smudging of sound. The bypass capacitors really affected transparency in my system, and affected depth of stage.
I only had them in for 3 or so hours, but I didn’t enjoy any part of this installation and have taken them back out.
@georgehifi you were right, at least as it happens to be the case in my application.
I am now in the camp for installing the single best possible quality cap that you can use in the signal path.

👍 Correct, never bypass "coupling caps" in the signal path. This goes for all audio equipment even speakers xovers.
But it’s good to bypass "de-coupling caps" in power supply or on voltage rails.

Cheers George

I've found Synergetic Research fuses to make a positive difference in my gear. Have no clue how a fuse could have an effect but it has in my case.

A better fuse will make a difference in every piece of equipment that uses a fuse. 
Filament dampening and heat management play a very big part in audio quality. 
Materials used in the construction also affect timbre. 
Sounds crazy, till you try it out for yourself :)

So I replaced all the capacitors on my Matrix USB H card for some AudioNote Kaisei ones.
The caps were a hard fit, but got it done somehow....
If you guys are using a PC as a source, do not look past that dedicated USB card.
The caps took a certain hardness out of the sound, and are extremely dynamic. Background is jet black, dead quiet. A massive bang for the buck upgrade. Very highly recommended.

I think I am finally ready for this Winter’s Lockdown ;)

Bring it on.

Other than wondering why people are having a caps discussion under a Fuses heading: I just replaced an aging Furutech blue fuse in my Wavac power amp with a new ACME Silver Cryo fuse. The increase in sparkle and impulse speed is astounding. Highly recommended!

New Purple Fuses Review:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1121/Synergistic_Research_Ethernet_Switch_UEF_Ground...

There is no ideal power transformer with perfect magnetic coupling  and no leakage flux. So the impedance will be always higher than winding resistance. No one would want to add more resistance to what is already there in order to keep the impedance of the secondary winding and the power supply as low as possible. Impedance is the current limiting characteristic of a transformer. If the amp needs a lot of current to drive a speaker load it will be audible if the impedance is high.

A fuse on the other hand has to be a resistive load if the current in the power supply rises in order to operate as a fuse in case of failure . That will be audible if the amp has to drive demanding speakers at high volumes or dynamic peaks. This shouldn’t affect class A amps but definitely class A/B designs.

So how would different material of the fuse wire which has to be a resistive load by design (gets hot and burns up if it reaches its breaking point) influence the SQ?

A piece of wire that would not increase the impedance of the transformer would be the only logical solution in order to avoid these current limiting effects. But then it’s no longer a fuse.

How does this all fit together with those expensive fuses? Any explanation?

The only way to find out is to try one for yourself and then reason it out after you hear a difference. I can't explain it but I hear the differences.

@millercarbon and @oldhvymec So I reinstalled the bypass capacitors.....and they sound incredible. Sorry 🙏🙏 I was too quick to judge them....they sound open, crystal clear, and wonderful in both position on my speakers.

Just needed a bit of burn in time.

The Tinned Copper bypass capacitors have a wonderful tone, all the microdetails are still here... I'll add in more impressions after I get some solid listening time with these. 

Correction. I only have them bypassing the tweeter cap. 

They sound very very good :)

Well that's better than eatin' bugs.. :-)

You know you don't have to accept the gift my friend, return it to the giver. Pretty simple.. If he is really bugging you let admen know to give him a chat. I've never had to but I suppose there is a place and a time..

Regards

Finally found the block feature 🙏

I am very surprised how much of a difference that these little bypass capacitors made.... makes me want to get the 10uf full size tinned copper capacitors from Duelund.

These things are amazing.

I'll save those for my Magnepan 20.7s  🎅

I am going to have TG send me a QSA Violet fuse to a B with a purple.

 

I, for one, don’t trust one of the members here that they actually even have a violet fuse to compare with a SR purple.

 

CD, you hear me?

Looks like George has been given another time out?

^^^ That's what I was thinking, Tommy. A much nicer place without him for sure.

 

So I installed the other .01uf Tinned Cooper Duelund on the mids capacitors, 115.8uf. The mistake i made the first time around was installing them at the furthest point away from signal output, after reinstalling them in the 1st position, they also sound amazing. 

Resolution, timbre, coherency, and soundstage all saw quite amazing improvements. My speaker system was absolutely nothing to sneeze at before the installation, but these have been a a extremely nice surprise. 

I am now solidly in the camp of bypassing crossover caps with small foil types 🙏 Sorry George. 

I still have 100's of hours before they fully settle in, can't wait to hear the final end result. 

 

Yep, the Duelund .01uf on crossover caps is a wonderful thing, I use the silver foil on Jupiter VT. I use same as bypass on my custom built 300B amps power supply to good effect. I've never bypassed coupling cap, never felt the need to experiment here.

The .01uf Tinned copper has been an absolute revelation.

I was up till 7 in the morning listening to album after album, non stop.

Everything sounded like I was hearing it for the very first time..... I am dumbfounded by how much of a difference these little capacitors made in my setup.....just dumbfounded.

Burn in has been especially crazy, at one point the sound lost all color, I have never experienced that before...and it came back after a while, and the sound became so incredibly liquid, and the soundstage became the most holographic I have heard on a speaker as of yet. Sadly that phase only lasted for a few hours, and I am hoping maybe they settle in eventually something close to that.

But either way, the clarity, coherency, and timbre are just exceptional.

This experience has convinced me, when I get my Magnepan 20.7s, I am building my whole crossover with just Duelund capacitors. Not settling for anything else.