milpai:
I’ll be purchasing an EX-8 2.0 shortly. Right now, I’m still working out which configuration to go with.
By the way, I think Stereophile had a total of 4 reviews of the EX-8 -- Ken’s original, an Atkinson follow-up, a "shoot-out" with the Cambridge Audio Edge, and the recent EX-8 2.0 update.
Despite all that, Stereophile never published the promised evaluation of the EX-8’s integrated headphone amp. That’s an issue for me b/c I’ll be using its sole unbalanced pre output to drive a powered sub. There’s thus no way to attach an external HP amp that doesn’t have balanced inputs (e.g., my unbalanced Class A Audeze Deckard).
In general, I would never consider powering phones from an integrated’s built-in amp. But in this case, well, maybe! I’ve read numerous comments about just how outstanding the EX-8’s modular DAC and headphone amp are, at least within the price range. More Charlie magic, I guess!
Still, I’d like to find an impartial third-party formal review before I commit myself to the possibility of having to buy a new headphone amp that has balanced inputs.
Sorry to sorta digress...
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You seem to have read Stereophile’s recent review of the Ayer amplifier. Did you purchase it @cundare2 ?
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IMHO, anyone shopping for a Class D amp -- for all the reasons why Class D amps are generally superior to other amplification technologies, like power, heat, size, & weight -- I suggest that you don’t ignore non-D designs that offer the same advantages.
Chief on this list would be Ayre’s current line, which includes several Class A/AB models in the 20-25lb range, 3-4" tall, and capable of generating over 100wpc with sonics that are reported to be competitive with most sub-$10,000 components. Ayre accomplishes this feat by means of the late, great Charlie Hanson's unique "Diamond" output-stage topology. It's a simple circuit that supposedly pulls much more power from a quartet of output transistors than do "traditional" designs. I've never heard or read of a direct comparison between a Diamond-based Ayre and any Class D product, not even the excellent GaN-based HiFi Rose RA180, in which the Ayre did not come out on top.
I don’t have a horse in this race and realize that YMMV. My point is that someone considering the mostly Class D amps in the OP’s list should also look at the few Class AB amps that offer form factors similar to -- and perhaps sonics superior to -- those of most Class D models.
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you gave it a good try Jeff and it was a great idea,
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That's a shame, I was hoping to see a comparison between the Aavik and the Hypex Nilai based amps. I have an option to buy an Aavik I-280, alternatively I will use the latest Hypex modules, I already have Hypex NC-400 based monoblocks.
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What a dud....
I'm the Bay Area and would have loved to compare the following;
Rose 180
Rose150B w/180
Rose 520
Custom Purifi (built several)
Peachtree Gan1
Nad M33
New Eversolo.....
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Sadly the room I was told I could use at the PNW Audiofest ended up not being available. The event could still be held easily enough. I have access to Peachtree,
Orchard, Mola Mola.
People in the thread offered to bring all the others. However all were silent
at the time I asked for confirmation. No one offered to assist either.
I did do a comparison with the Orchard and the Peachtree in my own home.
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Me four. I've heard the AGD stereo amp and Atma-sphere monos on my system and am interested to hear about the rest.
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Me too. What happened to the results? I have been following this from the beginning. Come on folks don't keep us in suspense.
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I’ve been wondering the same thing….
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Did this event happen? I would very much like to hear the views of the people who attended. Thanks.
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@badgerdms The SU-R1000 is GanFET in the regulator stage and the output stage. g700m2 is not - only in the regulator stage. I have both units in my rig.
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I agree with most here that Aavik has the best sounding , most musical class D amps and some of the most expensive. Aavik should be your Benchmark. 2nd place goes to AGD.... IMHO.
+1 @mbmi
I was very skeptical about class D and tried a few class D amps in the lower price bracket. My friend convinced me to give the new line of Aavik amps a try. It truly was a jolt to my belief system. IMO, it combines the best of tubes and SS in a unique, musical package.I ended up selling my tube amp and replaced it with Aavik U-280. As a die-hard tube guy, this is something I would have never even dreamed of just a few months ago.
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Thanks to everyone for the kind offers to volunteer both product and time
to the June 24th Class D Shoot Out in Seattle.
So far I have firm committments for all the desired products
with the exception of Technics and AGD.
I will get the AGD when I see Mikey at Axpona.
Same for the Technics unless a local option surfaces.
Please PM me if you offered a product for use in the event.
You will have first choice of seating which will be limited.
Best,
Jeff Kalina
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@tjag Sorry I cannot help too much with that comparison (before and after mods). I only had the unit in my home for 1 day before I sent it out to Ric for mods. He had done a prior mod for my now sold LSA Voyager GAN 350 and I had confidence in a improved GAN1 sound after mods.
There were 3 people that posted on A’gon about the stock GAN1 around the same time as I got mine and 2 did not like it at first. I was the only person that liked it with my RAAL SR1a and amp adapter box.
I never planned on using the modded GAN1 with my 2-channel office speakers, but here I am not doing just that.
I just came back from a 1 week vacation and turned on the GAN1 this morning. Man, this thing sounds so good.
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I will check out your website ricevs. From the many class D amps I've heard in stores and at shows....I agree with most here that Aavik has the best sounding , most musical class D amps and some of the most expensive. Aavik should be your Benchmark. 2nd place goes to AGD.... IMHO.
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I am the GaN 1 and VTV D300 modder....as well as modding VTV Purifi amps and Peachtree GaN 400 and LSA Voyager. Tweakaudio.com. Please contact me directly through my website info. I will have a couple of pics on my site tonight that show the modded amp.
Another person got his modded GaN 1 yesterday and is thrilled. He said he would chime in and mention what he heard. Another modded GaN 1 ships today and another Monday. More feedback coming....and mostly coming on the GaN 1 thread.
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@yyzsantabarbara
Thank you for the update. This is big Knowing that you are very demanding with regard to sound quality.
How would you describe the change in the GAN1 sound before/after modding?
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Who do I contact to mod the GaN 1.....
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@jeffseight
I imagine it might be difficult to remember the sound of each amp in a long series of comparisons. This is a bit of an ask, but it would be very helpful if you could create a video comparing the amps in a way analogous to the following video comparing phono cartridges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGmwBiVmgY
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@tjag The modded GAN1 as better than the Benchmark pre + amp in more qualities than the Benchmark was better than the GAN1. That was with my KEF LS50 Meta (soon to be upgraded to the KEF Reference 1 Meta). I sold 1 Benchmark AHB2 to someone who has some new horn speakers that are 118 DB sensitive. My guess is that I would prefer the BM stack with his horns over the GAN1. So it depends.
I would say that the modded GAN1 is very close to my Benchmark LA4 preamp + CODA #16 + Lumin X1 DAC/streamer. I think the modded GAN1 is almost as good but the slightly better stack cost so much more. The CODA amps has more power and that shows up in a very audible way, It is close sonically though with my not so difficult to drive speakers.
The GAN1 is a first gen product, while sounding amazing it is hard to use. Easy with my Lumin X1 but not so easy or as high quality with other streamers, The future products of this same design should be very interesting.
You would keep the DAC separate from the amplifier for the simple reason that DACs have been under continuous improvement over the last 40 years and many of them have decent volume controls in them these days so a preamp might not be needed. Of course, class D amps have seen vast improvement in the last 50+ years too!
Only DAC that I have heard that can approach the volume control of the Benchmark LA4 ($2500) was the Lumin X1 and even that Leedh volume control was not as good as the LA4 at low volume. The volume increments at low volume was not as linear or consistent as with the LA4 (nitpicking for sure).
From my perspective, the only standalone DAC tech that is really different (or evolving) are FPGA designs, I plan on using the LA4 preamp + CODA #16 + FPGA DAC in my Livingroom system, Only reason the GAN1 won't b used there is because of ease of use and I need a lot of power for KEF Blade 2 Meta.
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Tomi,
I could use some help
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The Gan 1 and VTV D300 can be as versatile as your imagination. Many streamers have multiiple inputs including phono. The Technics digital amps have analog inputs, phono inputs and volume. The Daniel Hertz amps have analog inputs and volume. However, many people (like myself) only listen to digital.....so having a simple digital system that is super transparent (and SUPER affordable) makes sense......you only need what you need.
PowerDACs (digital amps) have been around since the 90s (Tact Millenium). But, just like regular DACs they will keep improving. What really matters is how good are these digital amps right now......If they beat or equal $15K worth of gear for $2K then why would you want to spend more? Use the money saved to get off the grid (for way better sound) or bi-amp using two amps and make your own world class speaker for very, very little. As more people get the modified digital amps and the Daniel Hertz amp and A/B with "normal" stuff then we will know just how good digital amps are......until then....we are just making noise. So far, the feedback on the stock and modified Peachtree and VTV is SUPER GOOD.
Here are the people who will be resistant to the super transparent digital amps:
People with turntables who HATE the idea of digitizing their records.......people who HAVE to HAVE tube gear and love Tube sound. Digital amps will never sound like a tube.....and poeple who already have a ton of money and ego invested in their "normal" gear.......and dealers who will make very little money because they cannot sell you all those heavy expensive boxes and cables......and manufacturers who want to sell you their "normal expensive gear"........The idea of making a digital amp that is better and way cheaper than their 200lb. mono blocks and $150K DACs and $150K preamps freaks them out......if this technology turns out to really be superior to all that expensive stuff.....several companies are going to go out of business or have to switch to products that are cheaper. LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN!
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again..i celebrate the initiative of the OP… i live about 15 minutes South of tge show, so i am interested …..
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The suits ought to learn a thing or two from Ric, but they won’t bother listening to the grassroots from their high towers.
Who are the 'suits'??
Why would you buy a DAC, a preamp, analog interconnects and a regular class D or other amp......when all of that can maybe be replaced by one component?
Presumably if the amp you're using only accepts a bit stream as an input then this question is very easy to answer!
You would keep the DAC separate from the amplifier for the simple reason that DACs have been under continuous improvement over the last 40 years and many of them have decent volume controls in them these days so a preamp might not be needed. Of course, class D amps have seen vast improvement in the last 50+ years too!
So if you wanted to upgrade your system by getting an improved DAC or amplifier, you wouldn't have to replace the whole thing.
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Will we have use of the horns?
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But without my horns, any combination would be moot. :-)
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If you do not have digital amps to compare then you have no idea of what the future holds. Why would you buy a DAC, a preamp, analog interconnects and a regular class D or other amp......when all of that can maybe be replaced by one component?......basically a Power DAC. A modded Peachtree GaN 1 or a modded VTV D300 are a must for this comparison. You would need a great streamer with coax out and great volume control, and you need a great coax cable. We have several people who have replaced their class AB, class D amps and DACs and preamps with these simple digital amps. The big Technics digital amp should also be in the mix...........but really what should be the main thing to find out is how good the digital amp is from Mark Levinson......(the Maria amps from Daniel Hertz). He has one that is $8K and is an integrated amp with volume control.......so $8K versus....a DAC, preamp, analog cables and class D amps.......so the Hertz is cheaper......but the GaN 1 and VTV are way, way cheaper than that. They are $2K with the mods!!!!!!!! Don’t live in the past, Find out what is possible before buying $5400 class D amps plus DAC plus preamp plus analog interconnects ($15K total) that may not sound any better than a $2K modded digital amp.......and if the $8K Hertz is way better than buy that instead of the $15K combo.
After you have saved a bunch of money with the digital amps you can then get even crazier by buying another digital amp and the minidsp xover and make your own 2 way bi-amped speaker. You can use two 9.5 inch Satori woofers in a box (ported or sealed....same woofer used in Qualio IQ speaker but two per box here for more impact) and on top you can use a stack of four 8 inch planar drivers from Parts Express (GRS PT6825-8)....mounted on an open baffle. Cross over around 500 hz and equalize the whole thing using the minidsp so it is plus and minus 2 db at your listening position. The four planars in series parallel would be in the high 90s for sensitivity......very dynamic! This bi-amped speaker with both amps and crossover and wires and everything would cost:
$4K for two amps, $1500 for drivers, $500 for the wood, etc. $500 for the xover and $350 for a great power supply for the xover, 3 coax digital cables (one going into the xover and two coming out)....maybe $1000, $500 for PCOCC 14 guage litz wire to wire it all up with.......and more for super power cords, footers, stands, etc. So, let’s say $10K for the whole shebang. This bi-amped super speaker/amp combo would probably kill most $100K systems in transparency and realism.....of course, it won’t be as dynamic as horns........but in every other way.....amazing......Who will be the first to try this? Remember.....there is no DAC, preamp, analog interconnects needed in this system. This would be all hardwired.....ie; speaker wires hardwired from amp directly to drivers.....NO speaker connectors. This is incredible!!!
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Shkong- the VTV sounds interesting. I will check with them.
Have you compared it to the Orchard product by chance?
Badgerm- The idea is to determine who has the most musical class D
product these days and at what price.
The Aavik was chosen as a standard of reference so people can hear it
compared to others and decide for themselves if that price point works for them.
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@yyzsantabarbara
Is the GAN1 better than the Benchmark amp/Pre?
Better than the Coda16?
How can it sound better than a system with an expensive DAC?
Thanks
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The other reason is that the unit sounds so good that I have sold a lot of gear that was now replaced by the GAN1. I do not have a backup if the GAN1 is gone for this event.
The suits ought to learn a thing or two from Ric, but they won’t bother listening to the grassroots from their high towers.
Well done sir.
😀
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Although the shoot out will be interesting, it will be flawed
I have a LSA Voyager GaN350 and a Ric Schultz EVS1200. Even though I keep them powered up 24/7 (when in the system), in as little as 24 hours without playing, I find it takes a solid 30 minutes before they come on full song.
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Looking forward to what you report back after this event.
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Earlier in the thread I was willing to send my EVS modded Peachtree GAN1 to this event. This was before I got the unit back from the mod. Now that I have it back, I am not willing to send it. Two reasons, given the way I had the mod done, the speaker cable connectors are not the most robust for a lot of hands be touching. The other reason is that the unit sounds so good that I have sold a lot of gear that was now replaced by the GAN1. I do not have a backup if the GAN1 is gone for this event.
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Strange list that includes all kinds of things that are not GaN. NAD M33 is not. Both the Technics SU-R1000 and SU-G700M2 are, AGD, Atma-Sphere & Peachtree all make sense. Aavik is 4x the price of the most expensive other options here, not sure why that makes any sense to compare to the others.
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This is going to be a fun session. Looking forward to hear back once all the auditions are done.
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Here’s another vote for the low price leader Premium Audio’s Mini GaN 5. if it’s not in there, you’re just artificially raising the price floor. Not sure I see the point of including tweaked amps, because it no longer is the item that the manufacturer sells, warranty is probably voided, what’s the point? if you go, that route, you might as well include custom built, DIY items that are not even on the market, which would also seem pointless and needlessly complicate the event.
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Event Update,
I have received a commitment from event organizer Lou Hinkley of PNW
AudioFest June 23-25th held near SeaTac Airport.
Whale and DHT,
I would love to hear more about the DIYproducts. The event I am planning will take place during the Lou Hinkley's PNW Audiofest June 23-25th. All loaners will be available to return on Monday the 26th.
AXO-
The speakers will be high sensitivity, neutral floor standers. Possibly from Lou's Daedalus.
Preamp undetermined yet again a neutral solid state product.
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Sorry folks just realized I am hijacking the thread. I will take to pm
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Yeah I saw them when I was looking a while back. Do they have any in black? I couldn't find one nice enclosure like those in black
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What speakers and preamplification are you planning on using? I think this will be important to know in trying to figure out which Class D amplifiers to then compare.
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Where did you get the enclosures?
I am interested in some pictures.
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I have several built units from the Gan Systems eval boards in beautiful enclosures. if that will give a baseline.
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I know that Tommy of Digital Amp Company passed away but I would like to see one of his amps in that competition. I have 15 of his amps channels running my theater. But am wondering how they would stack up against this competition. I could probably bring a pair of his Golden Maraschino amps to Axpona to be sent back after the competition. I would want them back quickly though..
Let me know
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@nquery
Thnaks
I also sent you PM through WBF.
best
Thomas
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@nquery
Thnaks
I sent you PM.
best
Thomas
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@shkong78 please PM me to discuss further. As per our discussion on another forum, I replaced my LM805 with the Class D’s. So I have done that one ;) but maybe we can figure something out.
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@nquery
Hello
I found that I and my friend prefer the sound of Scaena 3.2 driven by Line Magnetic SET amp fitted with vintage tubes to that of Starkrimson.
But I am curious whether Atma D match the sound of LM 508
Are you willing to do side by side comparison between Atma D and LM 508 at my home.
I am living near Burlington, WA
best
Thomas
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