12 Extremely Disappointing Facts About Popular Mus

Rather interesting info here. Says a lot about popular culture.

made it easier :


Makes you wonder about a lot of them....
Even more disapointing is that ,for the most part,the people they were comparing them to sucked as well.
Funny. It puts into context all the audiophile complaints about people not paying attention to sound quality.

Re Barbra Streisand, objectively, I view her as a superior musician to acts like Pearl Jam (every song sounds the same) and Tom Petty, so I'm not sure what is so outrageous about her outselling those acts. I'm not sure why Katy Perry is inferior to Michael jackson, either.

And is Keisha even good-looking?
I wonder if today's sales numbers include MP3 sales where you do not even have to leave your home to purchase a song right after hearing it on the radio. It would give today's artists a huge advantage.
I think it says AT LEAST as much about the world population explosion as it does about popular culture. When most of the artists being compared to were at their most active (60's and 70's) the world pop was around 4B. Now it's more than twice that, and so is the music buying public. So before making such comparisons, the numbers need to be adjusted.
It says for the MOST that population is getting retarded.
I have to say to this article, so?
So what? Most people only listen to radio and unless you listen to college and 99% dont then you are spoon fed the same 500 songs most your entire life in any genre, country, pop, soft adult, rock so what do guys who make dumb lists expect? Its not the publics fault they dont know better and most really like their musical crap lives just fine so you cant save people that dont want saved. Live and let live, dont bother openly talking about this at the holiday party, you will just look like a snob.
And you expected.....?

So what. Pop music is what it is. Take it or leave it.
Lots of other choices out there.

Katy Perry is a lot hotter than MJ though.

Barbra Streisand (even in her prime) and Bob Marley too!

I bet even The Partridge Family outsold most of the more
"Serious" pop acts in their day.

I like TIc TOk. Fun song!

ANd a lot of BEPs as we all know as well, especially Fergie.

I bet Marley would really like the song "Union" by BEPs. It
is very good and a good recording to boot (for that kind of

(One for all, one for all)
(It's all it's all for one)
Let's start a union, calling every human
It's one for all and all for one
Let's live in unison, calling every citizen
It's one for all and all for one

We don't want war- can't take no more
It's drastic time for sure
We need a antidote and a cure
Coz do you really think Mohammed got a problem with Jehovah
We don't want war – imagine if any prophet was alive
In current days amongst you and I
You think they would view life like you and I do
Or would they sit and contemplate on why
Do we live this way, act and behave this way
We still livin' primitive today
'Cause the peace in the destination of war can't be the way
There's no way, so people just be a woman, be a man
Realise that you can change the world by changing yourself
And understand that we're all just the same
So when I count to three let's change


Got no time for grand philosophy
I barely keep my head above the tide
I got this mortgage, got three kids at school
What you're saying is the truth that really troubles me
I'd change the world if I could change my mind
If I could live beyond my fears
Exchanging unity for all my insecurity
Exchanging laughter for my tears


I don't know, y'all, we in a real deposition
In the midst of all this negative condition
Divided by beliefs, differences and religion
Why do we keep missing the point on our mission?
Why are we killin' each other, what's the reason?
God made us all equal in his vision
I wish that I could make music as a religion
Then we could harmonise together in this mission
Listen, I know it's really hard to make changes
But two of us could help rearrange this curse
Utilising all the power in our voices
Together we will unite and make the right choice
And fight for education, save the next generation
Come together as one
I don't understand why it's never been done
So let's change on the count of one

It takes one, just one
And then one follows the other one
And then the other follows another one
Next thing you know you got a billion
People doing some wonderful things
People doing some powerful things
Let's change and do some powerful things
Unity could be a wonderful thing

Once Tchaikovski was asked to compose something popular and simple so the general public with basic piano skills (and certainly with no possibilities to get stereo system) would play and enjoy. So he started releasing sheet music published in the monthly magazine for the length of one year.
Anybody has an idea what's the name of this piece? If not, ask for the answer!
I believe that mentioned public realy knew how to appreciate what it takes to make music.
A lot of chamber music was written so groups of amateurs could play it at home.
50 years ago americans were every bit as ignorant as today,
but in more idividualistic manners,dummies today largely cooky-cutter types.
that new music will rot your brains. signed concerned parent
Just sour grapes from a bunch of old codgers still living like they did 50 years ago except their tube gear and record players now cost 50X as much and still can't deliver on the hip hop.

Like I said, so? ;)
If Mozart can be thrown in a pauper's grave, in his twenties, then there can be no greater outrage in music.
How true Rok2id, how true!
And fools moaning the loss of such as Morrison,Winehouse,et al which well they may in human terms-register zero on the artistic one compared to a true tragedy like Schubert dead at 31.
I agree with Schubert… with the exception of one Elvis CD (that actually belongs to my wife… so technically that doesn’t count), there’s not one CD in my collection from any of the artists identified in that link.
Schubert must be somewhat popular in that his music is still reknowned years later, as is the case with many famous classical composers.

So are you saying that Schubert should be topping the charts and not the BEPs or Katy Perry?

Will today's pop acts still be popular 100 years from now? Time is the true test no doubt. It will be a different world then for sure.....

BAch, Teleman and Handel are pretty much the only original modern music makers of note to western civilization (can't speak for eastern or other non western civilizations or cultures which might have a different perspective) that have achieved or retained a high relative level of popularity hundreds of years later. I suspect only a select few acts from teh last 100 years will achieve a similar legacy 300 years from now.
Silly,classical music is the highest acheivement of the wetern world,there are a hundred great composers with a high level of popularity among those with the taste and refinement to listen to same.Even allmighty Bach has no real populsr popularity.
I suspect(strongely) there were be NO current acts even known a hundred much less three hundred years from now.
Popular music is utter garbage plain and simple.
'classical music is the highest acheivement of the wetern world'

Or any other world!! It conquers everyhere it goes. Witness all the asian artist.
The test of time can be misleading. Historical happenstance, political/economics and cultural nationalism have as much an influence over what art survives hundreds of years as the quality of the art.

Classical music - the highest achievement in western history? Very debatable, at best. My short list of higher ranking achievements:

collected works of Wm. Shakespeare
theory of natural selection
men landing on the moon/Voyager 1 & 2
"Moby Dick"
KAJ's skyhook
the Allied victory over the Axis
Albert Einstein
You left off the most important non-musical event:

Magna Carta

This is the only one I put above music.
Rja, I'd say the same for string quartettes or quintets, but would doubt about chamber music that often needs a professional orchestration.
"Silly,classical music is the highest acheivement of the wetern world"

Orchestrating music sure beats out orchestrating wars in terms of high achievement.

What is it again that makes classical music so much better than all the rest?

Harder to create orchestrate and perform I think clearly, but I'm asking more from the listener's perspective than the artists I guess.

Its impressive to think about and hard to actually do, but what if a good dance tune from Kesha were to float my boat more? Does that make me shallow or inferior in some way?

I know classical music affectionado's and academics including myself I suppose even feel that way but objectively I have a hard time explaining why?
'What is it again that makes classical music so much better than all the rest?'

The fact that the most advanced civilization / culture on the planet produced it. And that culture has spread around the world. Most of the world, is now in effect, European. Including the USA and Miss Kesha. :)
Yes Really. Culturally speaking, of course.
Why is it better? It clears the mind and washes the spirit in beauty,enobling the human spirit to embrace truth, compassion and love,in the religious meaning of that,in a
manner and to a degree nothing else can.
Gods greatest gift to man,music is the thing itself,not just representational as are the other arts.

As to "what floats your boat" ,that nautical journey can often be a one-way passage to the netherworld.
The good really is the enemy of the best,we all need the very best whether thats what we desire or not.
thanks for confirming what i already thought. the music business is going to hell in a hand basket.

modern pop sucks.
The fact for real is not at all in all the beauty of classical music, but in the appreciation factor.

Nowdays only small group of educated people would enjoy listening to music vs. pop fake whilist past times not to long ago it had substantially larger magnitude.

Becides classical there was jazz, sophisticated rock bands, neo-classical performers and composers, brittish envasion, progressive rock, 60's,70's,80's, some 90's and than sudden lapse... Northern Europe is still having substantially larger group of music appreciation than the rest of the world.
Will we ever have another rock band that would book venues larger than bar stage or even the bar stage will be too large for the skillfull rock band? That would be realy sad.
Mozart died at 35 or 36 not in his twenties, not that it really matters.

Thanks for the correction. 1756 - 1791
So, the music scene in most of our opinions has gone cheesy. Although I have to agree I don't know what to say about it.
It is what it is and nothing can change it. It's simply evolution. I have no choice but to accept it.
But we don't have to like it!
on a more positive note, A Great one you may have missed on CD:

Telemann & The Baroque Gypsies
Ensemble Caprice
Matthias Maute

Analekta Label AN 2 9919
It clears the mind and washes the spirit in beauty,enobling the human spirit to embrace truth, compassion and love,in the religious meaning of that,in a
manner and to a degree nothing else can.
Great description of the power of art, but I'm not sure it's true, at least universally so. Germany is the central nation regarding classical music. Germany produced Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Wagner and Mahler, yet Germany also produced Nazism and the final solution. Classical music was championed by the government as an example of German greatness during the Nazi regime. Being awash in the beauty of the human spirit doesn't stop some people from starting genocidal war.
The great Composers you listed were long dead by the time of the Nazi's. I don't see the connection? And I know this is a audio/music thread, But just a quick point:
EVERY country in europe (save Britain) contributed fighting units to fight with and for, the Nazi regime. Including troops from the Soviet Union. The germans had plenty of help. Many, Many Europeans saw the Germans as fighting for Christian Europe, against Communist Russia, and sent troops to fight on the eastern front..
Of course not,it is a powerful factor leading towards the light,one can always choose darkness or as was the case in Germany be channeled into it.
Not the place to go into it but Facism in Germany could have been prevented by others,including the United States.
We are all guilty,both of comission and omission.
BTW Haydn,Mozart,Schubert and Mahler were Austrian,not that it matters really.
I have great appreciation for classical music but claims of its innate superiority do bring up in my mind some nasty historical facts associated that would seem to contradict any claims of associated purity of spirit.
Come on folks Classical music is outstanding but 4 guys in a studio with some cut and paste can create beauty equal to 40 players in a pit. Many dont even need fancy studio tweaks. Jazz, Blues, electronic aswell and there is no need to turn this into some musical penis measuring contest.
Philojet, if you are still reading this, the answer to your question is yes, those sales numbers certainly include MP3 downloads.
The nazis really liked Wagner. I believe none of his music was played in Israel until very recently, like in the last year or two.
Can't say I blame them.
We are driving off the rails now, from Glee to Nazi? Really?
Yes, but I think there is value in pointing out that visions of grandeur be it in music or any other facets of life can be a double edged sword.

thanks, I thought so

HUGE difference in sales potential...

it may be less the population changing than additional segments of the population getting involved with a twist of technology. I doubt many 12 year old girls had money to buy tickets to a LVB concert back inthe day. Now they have hundreds of millions to spend. Nothing else other than alien probing could explain Justin Bieber. Toss in the computer, internet and a dash of tone sculpting vocal software and you can make music in your garage and distribute worldwide. Well either than or Marakanetz is right in the 6th post and the world is actually just getting dumber.
Schubert writes,

I suspect(strongely) there were be NO current acts even known a hundred much less three hundred years from now.
Popular music is utter garbage plain and simple.

A related question (or two):

How much contemporary classical music will be remembered a hundred years from now?


Where does classical (oh, say) Indian music sit on the universal scale of musical value?


PS It need not be a given that all great art comes from the academy. The guitar has the ability to emulate that most essential of human communications - speech. However, that emulation involves bending strings - a technique central to the blues and (virtually) absent from classical Western guitar music. My own guess is that the blues-based, guitar music of the 20th century will survive and remain of interest to a small group of people, much like (tho likely smaller than) those small groups that follow the various strains of classical music today.

Just a guess, obviously.

This is not to suggest that blues-based guitar music is "superior" to Western Classical music. The structural complexity and ambition of Western classical music separates it from pop and folk forms. However, that is not the only measure of artistic value. A simple idea, communicated in a straightforward and effectively way has artistic value. Enough to last for centuries? Only time will tell.

Posters might want to remain a bit sensitive to the merits of historically African (or other non-Western culture) based art forms. You can pick your own scoring system, but you should always understand that it is your own scoring system, reflecting your own cultural biases - not a universal "truth".
Hey folks, should US citizens listen or boycott arab music in the face of fighting terrorizm??
We stomped to the Middle East a number of times for a reason of building our own wealth (and probably will continue to stomp coz enough is never enough!) or another words conquerring their resources...
Does that mean that they will void listening to Gershwin, Ellington, Miller and other great composers?
Imre Kalman was hungerian jewish composer very widely listened and recognized by german nazis!
Composers and performing artists are just as human as we are and they do not dictate politics, although they could be forced to write/perform some 'patriotic' music (or acts) by dictatorship government...

Art should be independed of nationality or religion anyways and should only be dictated by public...
So let's welcome our new 'maestros' JayZ, Rihana, Lady Gaga that represent our nation's culture of 21st century!
Rja: 'The nazis really liked Wagner'
Hitler liked Wagner. Where did the idea come from that the nazis had some great appreciation of classical music? They were bigoted murdering thugs. Thats all.

Martykl: 'Posters might want to remain a bit sensitive to the merits of historically African (or other non-Western culture) based art forms'

Such As?
It does nor demean any other form,time, society ,nation,race or culture to state the obivious and that is the music of Bach,Mozart,Beethoven,Schubert et al is the greatest artistic acheivment of the human race.

Nor does that imply,in any way,shape or form, that the culture in which they lived and laboured is superior to any other.

If the ONLY music that existed was that of Bach alone, music would remain Gods greatest gift to man.

My point was that "Western Classical Music" (as narrowly used by some who have posted here, please refer to the names/period Schubert mentions in the post directly above this one for an example), represents an expression of Western (as opposed to universal) values. It is structurally complex and emotionally/intellectually ambitious. Contemporary music based on historically African musical forms (I'm specifically thinking of the blues - but jazz, rock, and some contemporary Western classical music also qualifies), often reflects a different ideal:

Communicate a single idea/emotion simply, directly and with great urgency (thanks John Atkinson, Stereophile for that line).

To suggest that the former is worthwhile and the latter worthless - see my copied quote from Schubert - strikes me as culturebound and insensitive. More obviously, other culture's complex musical forms (i.e. Indian classical music) get summarily dismissed in those sweeping claims of the superiority of Western Classical Music.

This view is both narrow and - as I noted - somewhat insensitive.


PS This was PRECISELY the point of the Nazi embrace of classical music. It was an attempt to establish the superiority of a single culture (Aryan) and its values. I'm not suggesting that any posts here are racist or facist, but I am pointing out that some border on - IMO - the insensitive.

No "politically correct" responses please. I am talking about the substance of the underlying assumptions, not the semantics.
'Contemporary music based on historically African musical forms (I'm specifically thinking of the blues - but jazz, rock, and some contemporary Western classical music also qualifies), often reflects a different ideal:'

All of the of music you listed is 'western' music. I assume you meant African-American, if so, it's all western culture. Let's keep the true meaning of 'culture' in mind. It's one of the most misused words. There is only one culture in the USA.

I did not mean to imply that classical music makes western people better than others, no more than BMW and MB make germans better. It's just the facts. Classical music is complex, requires large groups playing different parts, has withstood the test of time and it is Written down. This seperated it from most of the world's music back in that time. Nowadays, after the masters have spoken, there is not a lot left to say. And this is true for Jazz and pop also. happy listening.