Not to open up a can of worms but I am reaching out to people who actually have tried the SR HFT's or Black Box. I am building a new house and my two channel room is my great room / kitchen. The dimensions are 20'W x 40'L with 16' cathedral ceilings. This is not the best 2 channel room but it worked well in my last house. So the question I have are there any tweaks that I should be considering to improve the overall sound performance? I know the obvious answer is Acoustical Panels but that won't fly in my house. I already have all of the Perfect Path Technologies products for my system. I already have SR Blue Duplex's but might change to the orange. So now I am looking at what I can do to improve the sound in that kind of room without Acoustical panels. The rest of my system includes: Canary Audio Grand Reference 2 mono amps, C1800 Pre-Amp, InaKustic 3500P Conditioner, Lumin X-1 Dac/Streamer. My cables are all upgrades also. I have been looking at the SR HFT's and Black Box. Comments?
HFTs are awesome. See my full length review, around here somewhere. They have a sort of systematic way of adding them but I know from experience they can be done any way and any order you like.
When you look into them you will see there are a few different types. Each one is tuned and really does work best in the locations they suggest. That said if you are in a situation where the ceiling is very high or a side or back wall is very far away (or non-existent) then obviously they aren't going to work as well like that.
So what I would do is get the speaker kits. These for sure will work and no matter where you set the speakers up. Also the speaker kit comes with I think 3 different types.
What I would do is experiment with those on the walls and/or ceiling first. SR gives a free 30 day trial but if you can avoid even having to mail back with a little testing so much the better. It will also give you some idea how effective they are. Then after you've played around on the walls put them on the speakers.
I will tell you right now its crazy how good they are. And I have all the PPT stuff too so when I say crazy good I know crazy good!
Another one is ECT. These are different in where they go but almost exactly the same in the sort of improvement they bring- lower noise, greater detail and dynamics, less grain and glare, deeper more layered and precise sound field. None of it quite as good as PPT but pretty darn good nonetheless!
I wouldn't bother with Orange. Sending PM for better option.
I am surprised the “snake oil” naysayers who have never tried these products haven’t jumped all over this. I started out with one set of 5 HFT’s and noticed an improvement in soundstage depth and width. I followed the instructions for level 1. I purchased 5 more and installed according to level 2 instructions. Another noticeable improvement with one caveat; sometimes I would get some very noticeable inner air pressure. I spoke to my contact at the Cable Company and he said other customers had also mentioned that effect but it went away using 5 more installed following level 3 instructions. I now have a full complement including ECT’s, Wide Angle & speaker kits supplemented with the newest Atmosphere system with the additional slave module. In my opinion the best bang for the buck are the HFT’s but get at least 3 sets of 5. One of my new neighbors who works for a marketing company with a sound room was amazed the first time she walked into my stereo room which has a wall of windows on one long side, marble floors sans carpeting and drywall clapped her hands and asked me “what is going on in here, this room should have a clap echo”, I pointed to the HFT’s on the ceiling and walls and explained how they worked and she said “I have to get my guys in here.”
You waste you time and money pursuing such tweaks. Put your time and money into the things that actually affect the sound directly, the power and signal paths. :)
Have you considered that room tuning panels, which are efficacious, can be made more artful? You can get them custom made with prints of your choice on the fabric, and can even frame them to appear like artwork. If you had not hear of it, I suggest you check it out. I believe there was a company I saw several years ago that would let you put your image on the fabric. I am guessing that with today's tech it wouldn't be that hard to get a printer that does fabric to put whatever image you wanted on it. If you are handy this would not be a difficult task, and could be an agreeable compromise solution if the roadblock is aesthetics. :)
I have dedicated 20amp line going directly to my two channel system. I will have an upgraded outlet. My wires will all be pasted using PPT goop. All of my plugs will be plugged into a Inakustic 3500P. I have upgraded PC's. I believe I have answered your power to signal path question. Regarding room tuning panels....it does not matter if I could do a nice custom print. I used them on my last house but had to place them 12-18' up the wall. To be effective they need to be at listening level. In my new house that is impossible as one side is a 16ft sliding window door wall and the other side is the entrance to my house. That is why I am asking about the SR products in helping with room dynamics. Or for that matter, anything else that might help that is not intrusive or large.
Hmmm... some tough criteria, conditions. Some of these solutions also may not be acceptable, but here goes:
Portable/movable sound panels. Take em out when listening, roll them away when not. Use for personal enjoyment of system, and keep tucked away when entertaining.
Window treatments or retractable sound fabric "wall" for window/door
I presume you already have considered sizable floor rug and potentially stuffed furniture with cushions, etc.
I would try synergistic UEF Panels and Dots - very musical - put em on the walls as outlined in instructions for a couple of days - and then remove the panels - the sound stage collapses. You will want them back in.
I tried the HFT's - they work as advertised. But I preferred the UEF panels. YMMV.
Hoping if anyone can advise. I have open back speakers, i intend to buy the HFT speaker kit to place on the speakers. For the walls, which would suit open back speaker, the HFT or the UEF Dots?
I am from Australia so it would be hard to make use of the 30 days trial.
I dont have a dedicated music room so it is an all in one TV, home theartre lounge room so there are 2 sets of speakers the open back only for music and HT LCR and surrounds.
Does anyone even know how these things work? I can't find much information even on their site. Are there other companies making similar products? I just don't understand how a small dot can influence so much.
Nevertheless they do indeed work. Search the site. Read my review. Search dither. Decide for yourself which is more important: that it works? Or that you understand how it works?
I installed a ten-pack of HFTs around the room as directed in the package. This finally got my room under control. And, this was after using four Shakti Hallographs and Room Tunes in the system.
I'm one of the biggest skeptics on this kind of stuff. I heard the demo at RMAF in 2019 and it was impressive. Bought the HFT's (16) in total. They made a positive impact on my system. I previously had some bass traps in the corners and some diffusion but they improved the sound from there (bigger soundstage, openness and better placement of instruments). Not all tweaks make a difference but these did. I would have returned them if they didn't work but they did.
I'd put it this way: HFTs are better than nothing but they are not acoustical treatments that help with things like early reflections and the like. They help reduce high frequency energy.
How do I know this? I'm living it. I have a large open floor plan that is a challenge from a logistical and aesthetic perspective. (Okay, WAF and related.)
For this reason I've resisted acoustic treatments and when I found out about HFTs, I thought they seemed like a great alternative
To date, I've deployed the HFTs, the Wide Angle, Speaker Kits and one Black Box. All nice stuff. It all helps. I would characterize the effect as quieting the room. I notice more clarity and space.
But, it's not the same as treating a room acoustically. I had a professional come over and do a room analysis. I already knew this but wanted to prove it with data. It's clear. I have to treat my room/space to the degree I can get away with. That means some permanent treatments and some that can be moved in/out of the room.
Again, I really like HFTs, etc. They did help. And they are very unobtrusive. But, for me, they're not enough. I'll report back once I get my treatments in place, probably sometime mid-summer. Hope this helps.
JPAN ---you saw the dimensions of my large room that acoustically speaking is God awful. That said, I too have a wife who even hates the HFT's that I have scattered around. She thinks they look like bugs and are an eyesore. I am just curious, what are you hoping to do in your house? Specifically what treatments and where?
Fast forward five months and this is what has happened in summary: 1. Bought a number of GIK acoustic panels to cover early reflection points. Mine are moveable and I move most of them in and out for listening sessions. They are easy to do so. (It took quite a bit of time to get them due to what we're all experiencing with supply chain issues.) 2. Focused on upgrading my isolation platforms for my amps, upgrading couplers for all my components and upgrading my tone arm RCA and power cord for the phono stage. I chose HRS bases and a mix of Vortex and Nimbus for my components. I selected Stillpoints Ultra5 for my turntable. Cables and power cord came from Synergistic (and now I have 100% Synergistic throughout my system). 3. Finally -- and this the big one -- I put in a Distributed Bass Array from James Romeyn which is a modified version of the AudioKinesis Swarm. The system was set up by J. R. Bosclair, of Wally Tools. It was a good eight hour effort using data analysis to find the optimum location for the subs and the various nob changes on the sub amps (2). I enjoyed the process.
The first two set of changes we good and valuable. It's amazing what you can do when minimizing reflections and improving isolation and chassis noise. But none of that compared to the difference of the DBA. Implementing that was an order of magnitude change improvement across the spectrum of what we typically define or use to explain how a system sounds. Essentially, the DBA rendered the other changes as tweaks. Whereas the DBA was monumental in impact. As others have described and as it's been written in TAS, it's not just the bass that improves, but everything from the mids to the highs. It's incredible and so fun. Finally, my room is less of an issue (although certainly not perfect) and I have real, "deeply" discernible bass (and not just deep but low and mid-bass) with speed and accuracy. But the crazy thing is how much this system "corrects" lots of bad stuff happening b/c the bass was previously "misbehaving". Okay...I'll stop. I know how this might sound or appear.
Yeah, it sounds and appears as though you have experienced a DBA! lol! What I been saying! And Tim. And all the rest of us who have actually done it. Good for you.
@jpan - I was shocked at the level of improvement I received once I add Vicoustic Acoustic Cinema Round Acoustic panels to my walls. I already have 18 HFT's scattered around. The panels aren't even in a position where they would be most effective as they are 12 feet off the ground. Being able to move your panels around is excellent. I was trying to convince my wife to allow me to buy two VicTotem Absorption / Diffusers on the basis that I would move them out of the room when we had company....she said NFW. I can tell you the Vicoustic panels were a game changer for me.
I have 10 HFTs around the room, as well as some acoustic panels.
They both work as advertised.
With the HFT's, what I find to be very interesting, is that you can tell (hear) a difference just by experimenting with their placement, to within a few inches.
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