Shunyata or Synergistic for power conditioning?


Hi,
Please forgive me if this is not the correct topic location to post about power-conditioning since the two brands I am interested in are famous cable manufacturers.

Comparing "Denali" and "Powercell 12 UEF" ; anyone who has tried both and can share opinions?

i like open clear dynamic sound. Smooth high frequency is also important.
Thank you.
hamburger
Hamburger, I have the feeling that you are going to have to find a dealer that carries both brands and listen for yourself and/or have them describe what they hear, and the differences.

lak is correct. That's the only way to do it. If you live in the US, call The Cable Company. They can send you demo's of both units. 
Sorry I cannot comment on the comparison but I own the 12UEF and could not be more pleased. However the Denali is also a very well reviewed unit and one I would be happy to own. Based solely on ease of use and my beliefs on synergy my advice would be that if you already have a lot of SR kit then go with the 12UEF but otherwise choose the Denali, if only for the plug supports which are a godsend, and something I have to improvise on my 12 UEF. One material consideration is that the Denalis do not come with a power cord, that actually makes them much more expensive if you do not have a spare suitable cord (in the $2-3K range) handy. Hope this helps. You can find my experience with the 12UEF here

Thank you guys!
The problem is that both products are sold by different retailers and both do not have the products for home trial.

That aside, I appreciate the kind advice from folkfreak from a "holistic" angle of owning a particular product. I own neither SR nor Shunyata products currently. I think SR has more products in their arsenal (Tranquility, grounding, etc)...

My cables are all HiDiamond.  Will the HD3 power cord from wall to Denali work well, I wonder. 
@hamburger;
I recently purchased the Shunyata Denali D2000T.
The HD3 power cord (I use to own a D3 and D4) will work on the Denali but you will need a 20 amp IEC feeding the Denali. If you don't own a 20 amp IEC power cord you could buy an adapter 15 to 20 amp IEC from VooDoo Cable for example: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/ac-cables-voodoo-cable-iec-adapters-15-amp-or-20-amp-cryo-treated-...
They do work very well and I have never experienced any loss of sound quality.
I found a gem in the rough that I'm currently using to power my Denali, it's the Silver Ghost power cord: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/ac-cables-6-silver-ghost-custom-made-silver-rhodium-woven-power-co...
I had a custom Silver Ghost made with 20 amp Wattgate IEC's. It's a very good power cord that is relatively inexpensive, but competes with power cords easily costing thousands of dollars in my opinion, and I have owned those power cords. BTW the Ghost power cords are built with impeccable craftsmanship, I'm very impressed and just ordered a second one last night. Being cryogenlitcy treated, they do take some break in hours.
I'm in no way connected to or benifit from any of the manufactures mentioned above, I'm just trying to pass on my thoughts to anyone that reads this.
Happy New Years to all!
"Based solely on ease of use and my beliefs on synergy my advice would be that if you already have a lot of SR kit then go with the 12UEF..."

folkfreak,

I find this to be so true with the SR products. Perhaps this, aside from the obvious value offered, is why SR includes their power cord and receptacle with each Powercell 12.

hamburger,

If you are open to other considerations, the Audioquest Niagara 7000 and the Running Springs Audio Dmitri have been recommended by several credible audiophiles here and elsewhere.

Best to you both,
Dave


Hi lak,

How does the Silver Ghost compare to the Cerious cords?

Best to you lak,
Dave
Dave, I think on the power conditioner and my Integrated amp I prefer the Silver Ghost over the Blue and/or Yellow CT power cords. I will say that I need more listening time to be more spacific. And of course I still believe the CT cords are very good and I still use my Blue and Yellow since I'm working with two systems.

Thanks lak. Update us on your impressions as you get more time with the cords.

Best to you lak,
Dave
" How does the Silver Ghost compare to the Cerious cords?"

The problem with power products in general, is that results are not consistent. Its hard to predict what a PC will sound like from system to system. If you can't use Cable Company and have no way to demo, you may want to consider JPS Labs Digital AC for entry to mid level digital components, and either ESP Essence or Richard Grey PC's. I've used both the ESP and RGPC with hundreds of components over the years, and never had a situation where they did damage. The JPS is designed to deal with some of the issues that arise low to mid cost digital components.
Hi lak,
Thanks for letting me know about your positive experience of the HD3 on Denali, but you have moved on to the Silver Ghost.  Since I already have the HD3 (sunk cost), I hope to make full use of it with whatever conditioner.  Could you let me know how the HD3 differs from the Silver Ghost cables, sonic wise?

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your recommendation of Niagara 7000 and the Dimitri.  I will check them out.

Enjoy your music!
Hi hb,

I am a huge fan of the SR Powercell, so I notice when credible others say that they like another unit better after owning a Powercell 10UEF or 12UEF. The 7000 and the RSA are the only two I have seen this with when compared with the 10UEF. The 7000 is much more expensive and requires a separate cord, but RSA offers their top cord as an option with the Dimitri, making it comparable to the top-tier Powercell 12UEF in price/value.

Looking forward to reading what you do.

Best to you hb,
Dave
Regarding the Dmitri -- it’s a good conditioner, I used to own one, but not in the same league as current models such as the 12UEF and the Denali. Also in my experience the Dmitri will not sound good with power amps if that is where you want to use it. If on the other hand you primarily want it for sources and get it 2nd hand (they are widely available) then it could work well. By the same token you can also get very good deals on second hand older models from SR and Shunyata as well ...

The Niagara is worth checking but substantially more expensive then the other two options -- I suspect all of these things cost more in Singapore where I think you are

In the US at least with the dealers I deal with they should be prepared to let you borrow the demo model and trial it at home, Bear in mind that with power components such as these it may take many days for them to settle -- every time I unplug my SR kit it takes at least 24-48 hours for the cables to settle in again (likely a result of the active shielding to reestablish). And of course unplugging and replugging your components is likely very awkward.
folkfreak is one of the "credible others", so I would take his comments as gospel.

lak also. Can't go wrong with advice from these two.

Dave
Thanks but Gospel may be taking it a bit too far 😇

Seriously hamburger as it seems you are new to the power conditioning business I’d buy second hand to start with, learn what works for you and then trade up from there. There’s next to no risk of getting a lemon when it comes to buying a power conditioner -- I’ve bought and sold many over the years. Buying new, especially without being able to compare, will simply mean you lose a load in depreciation straight away. And any money you save you can use to upgrade power cords (again the key is to find a line you like and move in that, the SR atmosphere cords are actually a good price and easy to use but unfortunately still rare used). I also like AQ WEL cords and you should see loads of these appear in the second hand market soon when AQ bring out their new power cord line
Humility becomes you, folkfreak.

It is indeed rare IME to find someone as experienced and knowledgeable as you that is willing to pass along solid, balanced advice to those a step or two (or more) behind you merely at the asking.

Let me know if you decide to let those WEL speaker cables go.

Best to you folkfreak and Happy New Year,
Dave
Dlcockrun, thanks for your kind words...

Seems to me that jmcgrogan2 (another very credible source as there are many on Audiogon) has actually owned a couple of the power conditioners being discussed here and I’m sure he would have some good information to share.

Hamburger, you can’t go wrong with the HD P3. At this point in time I believe the Silver Ghost (high current) produces a wider, deeper sound stage and more micro detail presented in a very musical fasion.
Hi Folks,
It has been 14 months since the last post by lak.  I have not gotten my shopping done yet. It's a draggy ongoing project... but I am working slowly on it.

1) AQ Niagara 7000 - I have heard it personally at Munich Show, being demo'd (plugging in and out) in a system by Garth.  Yes, impressive, but not exactly what I want.

2) Shunyata Denali 6000s with Sigma NR powercord - Had a home trial plugged into my own system. Very impressive; very positive and strong "hifi technical attributes", but somehow I was not drawn into the music. I like equipment that makes me want to listen to music.  Comparing it to an Isotek Evo3 Aquarius that I had used in my system, although not as "hifi technically competent" as the Denali, but it drew me into the music more.  Wonder if the new Shunyata Triton V3 would be a better fit for me.  Not that the Denali is bad, but from what I read comparing Denali and Triton V3, it seems Triton could be more my taste.  I am splitting very fine hairs here to find something to match my taste. KIV the Denali and Triton.

3) Synergistic Research Powercell 12 UEF SE - No home trial being offered, but I am still "feeling hopeful" and trying to read up on this... However, there are not many forums that talk about this equipment.  I wonder why...  I heard comments that its products are quite a "hit-or-miss" and depends very much on your luck if it works in your system. 

Just an update! ;-p
Appreciate your advice!
Have you taken a look at the Equi=Tech product?
hi falconquest,
There is no Equi=Tech in my area, and also I am not interested in big transformers.

Just to add a comment on the Shunyata Products I tried.  Although my focus is on a power conditioner, I noticed the Sigma NR powercord is very, very good.  (Lak, The Hi Diamond HD3 powercord is nowhere near its performance level.)  In the Shunyata system, I would say the Sigma NR contributed about 38% of the performance, and the Denali itself the other 62%. Hmm... that's also about the price ratio of Sigma NR to the Denali.  ;-)
Thanks for the update! :-)

Where did you pick up your Sigma NR from?

20 amp cord I assume?
When you see Synergistic Research in any reviewer or audiophile's system, it's a huge red flag of either the person being tone deaf, on the take from SR, or just gullible beyond belief.

The guy is a total joke and has zero qualifications for anything related to audio.  His background is 100% marketing/corp sales.  Instead of providing any evidence or details of his engineering qualifications, he hides behind a "30 day money back guarantee" worse than a late night infomercial.

if you fell victim to the placebo effect or his clever staged demos at shows, just look under the hood or crack open any of his phony products.  If you have any qualifications to know what you are looking at, it will be clear that his stuff are both ripoffs and hugely overpriced.

Notice also that he visits lots of reviewers so that he can work his staged demo in real-time.  Nobody credible in the industry has the free time he has to go to reviewers homes or spend all day in a custom created Facebook group where he continues to fool sycophants.

I don't care how you waste your money, so I'm not interested in arguing what should be obvious to you.  You don't even have to take my word for it.  Go around the shows and ask other respected mfgs with actual credentials...or find SR products in ANY room other than theirs.  In the countless years I've gone to shows, the ONLY room where I've seen SR stuff was Sonore (they used his phony black box) and that company is hardly anything to care about.  Otherwise, it's strictly SR owned rooms or his dealers where you will see anyone use his stuff.

If you think his room sounds good, buy a Berkeley Dac, Soulution/McIntosh amps and Magico speakers because that's the only thing making it sound good.
Whoa!
Are you a Happy Audiophile?

I'm Tone Deaf. On the Take. And Gullible Beyond Belief. 

Basically a Sorry Audiophile Mess. : )
Me too. So ashamed.

Dave
So, just to bring this back on track, I have decided to go down the power conditioning rabbit hole. After talking to some dealers who sell ARC gear (I have a Ref 6 and Ref 150SE), I’ve decided to try an Isotek Aquarius and Isotek Syncro in conjunction-Syncro into the wall and then to the Aquarius. Since my dedicated listening room needs to be cleared out for removal of carpeting and installation of hardwood, I am going to take the opportunity to have an electrician come in and run 10 gauge romex from my breaker panel below to my outlets, making sure that all the romex to my listening room is installed on the same leg of the AC, and replace my hospital grade outlets to even better outlets. I had dedicated lines installed when we built the house almost 20 years ago, but new romex and receptacles can't hurt. It will likely be a month or two before all is done, but I will report back. I don’t have any transformer hum that I know of, but the idea of blocking all DC and getting other filtering benefits from the Syncro before the power goes to the Aquarius which also filters the AC appeals to me. I will have a 30 day trial period so I might as well see what they do for my system. This gives me the flexibility to also try the Syncro hooked up directly into my amp and then using the Aquarius for the rest of my gear. Of this I have no doubt; there is no single sure bet with power conditioning. It is all hit and miss system-dependant guesswork and trial and error. Like medicine, the first priority is to "do no harm".
Sounds interesting fsonicsmith. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on your new set up when the time comes :-)
@hamburger 
I think the Triton v1/2, or PC 12 UEF will meet your goals.
@fsonicsmith 
I know many people love the sound of the Isoteks. They are technically well designed. The only problem is that they are basic components in a shiny case.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0272/9879/products/ISOTEK_aquarius_7_large.jpg?v=1444811421
Hi,
Just to share what has progressed and especially for those who might be on the same path as me looking for a power conditioner. Thanks jay23 for reminding me to update this thread that I started.

Please read my below post with reference to my post dated "02-16-2018 5:38pm".

Guess what I have bought?
I changed my mind and bought an AQ Niagara 7000, and I am absolutely delighted with it. Initially, what made me struck off the AQ was the issue of the (many) transformers inside it humming. This issue has been highlighted on various sites and also mentioned in its user-manual. Then I noticed a pattern that tube amplification seems to aggravate this issue more than solid state stuff.

I decided to buy it because...
1) My system is all solid state. Bought a brand new sealed in box unit. Crossed my fingers, plugged in all my solid state equipment, and voila! No humming what so ever, except for a very faint buzzing sound (like a CPU fan whizzing) when your ears are less than 60cm from it. The soft buzzing was acceptable to me.

2) Call it Garth’s marketing pitch or his effort put into his lively (animated) presentation of his products, I understood his points. I trusted his concept and he being an experienced veteran in this field of "power conditioning", and also the AudioQuest brand backing it as a product. Of course I personally heard the improvements every change he made at the demo he did, from no-conditioning, to Niagara 1000, to 5000 and to 7000 at Munich Show 2017. Then, I also had numerous viewings and catching "hints’ in his few videos on YouTube.

3) Michael Fremer made a video comparing the Denali 6000 and Niagara 7000 on Analog Planet. Went through it a few times and I could tell the 7000 was more my taste. The key selling point to me between the 6000 and 7000 was harmonics in the music. The 6000 chops off sounds, while the 7000 lets sounds decay. I think the lack of "harmonics" made me commented in my earlier above post- [[ (The Denali has) very positive and strong "hifi technical attributes", but somehow I was not drawn into the music. I like equipment that makes me want to listen to music.]]


If you have the Niagara 7000, be prepared...
1) That it needs a long time to break-in. I have stopped counting the hours, but it sounds better and better over the past 2 months. I have had it since late March.

2) I do not "switch off" (a breaker switch actually) the Niagara. It is on 24 by 7. There is constant current draw, my electrical consumption has gone up by about 50kWh within a month.

3) That plugging in cables will be a painful exercise, because the sockets are all so tight. Took me 15 to 30 minutes to plug in one socket depending on the thickness of the plating. I lost a few milligrams of Rhodium, Silver, Gold, Palladium on the prongs of my plugs. Some are actually stripped off plating at the tip. Considering the plugging difficulty, the weight and the size of the unit, remember to remove all footer/spikes underneath it.

And a twist to the episode...
What do you try after getting the Niagara 7000?
I tried the new series of AQ STORM cables, a Hurricane to be exact. I did not like the cable, but some will like it I am sure. I think there are other cables more to my liking. That’s a story for another day.

After 2 months, I love my AQ Niagara 7000 despite it being a very expensive unit. I hope it will last for at least ten years, as what AudioQuest also said in its user-manual.
Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions.
Thanks for the update!
Hi Lak,
I want to share with you that I changed the plugs on my HiDiamond 3 powercords to Furutech Fi-50 NCF series plugs and that's what I meant by saying "the Hurricane cable is a story for another day". Cheers!
;-) 
@hamburger 
Congrats on the new power conditioner!

The Niagara 7000 does have more parts than the Isotek.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/pics/audioquest_niagara_7000_inside_large.jpg

The hum is a negative, as you're adding to the noise floor. So is stripping the plugs, as they could now oxidize.

If you're happy with the sound, that's what counts.

@hamburger I'm sorry if I missed it earlier in this thread, but could you list the components you are plugging directly into your AQ Niagra 7000 and whether or not you still have any components directly plugged into the wall (besides the power conditioner)?
Thanks
Al
Hi astewart,
Every item in my audio chain is plugged into the Niagara.  Nothing is directly from the wall.  TT, phono-amp, CDP, integrated-amp and a subwoofer (5 items).

Hi jay23,
"If you're happy with the sound, that's what counts."... Precisely! ;-)
Has anybody checked out the new PS audio p20? I’m just not sure the passive devices Ike the Demali do much for the quality of the power rather than just filtering it.