Well, the price for it is in Germany about 2900 Euro with Arm and it is selling very well.
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How does the Raven 1 compare with the Mambo? These seem to be similar in theory both plinthless suspensionless belt drives. More mass loading on the Raven with what I would suspect to be a higher torque motor.
Just out of curiosity, which bearing has a longer bearing sleeve? I know it's not really an indication of anything but general construction.
I don't know how the Raven 1 compares to the Mambo. But theoretically, I think the motor of the Raven One is much better than Mambo and this could likely make it sound better. People in the know beleive the direct drive TT's (Garrard, EMT, etc) are the cream of the crop. The Raven motor behaves close to a direct drive in torque and speed control.
My points about the AC vs the One where more relaible since they were in the same system, aside from different cartridges and arms. However, the AC had a better arm and cartrdge on it. I think they are close enough given the 5K price difference. If funds are an issue then go with the Raven One. The AC is better but as you know, the law of diminishing returns applies like it does to most gear.
I'm not sure about sleave lengths.
I am dying to order one of these. I just have to wait to clear up some tax issues- but as soon as I do I am getting one. I actually have only heard the Raven AC at Highwater Sound, and will probably go back to hear the Raven One, but thanks to Aoliveros comment, I am confident that the TW Acoustic is on the right path in terms of materials, bearings, etc. It's also a size and weight I can manage. I did like the sound of the AC - but honestly I think tables are almost impossible to get a handle on in a foreign system - different arm, cart, phono pre. That is one area I will give digital playback - as I think it's more consistent across varying systems. I suppose one could compare a reference CD on the foreign system for a while to attune ones ear to what the system is doing, the listen to a reference LP and try to extrapolate.
I have a Schroeder 2 sitting here purchased from A'gon, that I am dying to listen to, and can't mount on my current table.
I even emailed Frank Schroeder to see if he thought it was a good combo, and seems it is.
I have heard the Raven AC with a Schroeder reference and it sounds heavenly.
I have another friend that has just replaced his Platine Verdier with a Raven AC (also a Schroeder Reference) and he is over the moon with the improvement the Raven AC made (he had the Reference with the Platine).
Good choice Emailists...go for it. Ducatrider, I have a Raven on order (will be installed on the 17th of this month) and I must say that I am quite anxious for it to arrive.
I have heard form others that the Raven One is quite close to the Raven AC in performance at half price.
P.S. Jeff is great to work with.
P.P.S. Larry, yea I have th Tri-Planer installed but will also order a Schroder Ref .
Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
the motor of the Raven-one is the same as the Raven AC motor. The side motor and the second arm board is a upgrade. You can order it in one time, or later at any time you want. The size of the Raven-one is 18" wide and 15" deep. The total weight is 21kg. I hope I can help a little bit.
If I hadn't decided on the Raven one, I think I would have gone for that Well Tempered signature special edition listed here yesterday. For $3k with an arm, it seemed like a great deal (I have the WTT classic I will be replacing with the Raven.) But since I have a Schroder 2 sitting here in a box, I have started down this path. This may seem childish, but I had some back tax situation I had been avoiding due to all the paperwork. I made my self a promise I wouldn't order the table till I got all that dealt with. It actually made tax time "fun" if you can call it that. As long as I don't get competely wiped out, I should be ordering very soon.
Which is better choice of tonearms for the Raven one.
The Schroeder model 2 or the Triplanar Vll? Have Allaerts
MC1B or Universe with copper coils and SB available as cartridges.
Do the Millemium mat and clamp come standard? Is an upgrade to better isolation feet like Stillpoints or Boston-Audio tungsten carbide balls carbon feet worthwhile or are the regular points good enough?
My Raven one has been ordered. I Can't wait. I'll report back in I guess 6-8 weeks when I get it. I Ordered through Jeff at Highwater sound. Since I am in New York, he'll be setting it up with the Schroder 2 I bought on A'gon.
Unless I sell a TV show concept- my guess is this is the last Turntable I will have to buy. Now if I do sell a show - every penny will go into analog - That new $300K goldmund reference 2. I won' thave anyplace to live- but I will have a great table.
In investigating I found a table that I believe will be
much more satisfying than the Raven One. Here is a link.
I think it will require a bit more tweeking to get the same level of performance.
Okay if you clicked the link, I appear to have lost my mind. The Raven One is still several weeks away.
I'll post back when it's here and mounted.
you had me shocked there for a minute emailists.
david: in europe reports are that the AC and One are very close. some listeners think the One is more dynamic (it is quite a bit lighter). for me the logistics of using a 190 lbs turntable is too cumbersome. there is a bit of buzz on pink fish media (i started a thread asking about the Vivid 2 tonearm)
do a search for raven.
Thank you for the link, this helps a lot.
I have the same issue as you, having a 50kg turntable and its dimension represents a challenge. The cabinet to house the turntable has not been made yet, so whatever I order will dictate the shape and foundation of this cabinet. Most likely I will make a decision next week, currently my decision swings from the AC to One every few days.
Looks like the Vivid tonearm is made by Jelco, a South African audio website reported that. From the Jelco website, they look similar to my eyes.
Does anyone know the approximate dimensions (and ballpark pricing) of the Raven One and Raven AC (w/ & w/o 3-motors)? Thank you! I searched all over (including the twacustic.de site) to no avail.
Are Schroeder tonearms *actually* available? (Specifically the Referenz) Not just whether they are taking orders...are deliveries being made?
Can the Raven accept a 12" arm?
Pricing of the TW Acustic should be discussed with High Water Sound if you are in North America.
As for dimentions of the Raven AC with one motor they are 24" wide by 16" deep.
The Raven One can accomidate the 12" arms. TW Acustic has a picture on there site with a Ortofon 309i and a Schroder.
No connection to High Water Sound or TW other than a happy customer.
My Raven One should be here by mid May. I just decided to upgrade the arm board to bronze after reading a Raven One thread on PinkFishmedia. Many of us know the benefits of brass cones (I have brass sistrum speaker stands that are amazing). I actually had to look up the difference between bronze and brass to see how they were different compositionally.
I think the bronze armboard will help to close the gap between the Raven One and the bigger AC. Apparently Thomas, the Raven's builder has a One at home (along with an AC) that has the bronze armboard and an external motor. One listener had trouble distinquishing bettween the two tables, and even Thomas himself was reported as sayiing the difference was about 10%.
(I'm not sure how much if any the external motor contributes to the One). I think this effectively means that the Raven One is probably the biggest bargain in turntables today, since it comes so close to the AC in sound quality, and the AC reviews have been fantastic. I think I also read that the price of the One is going up next month, so I'd say if your thinking about this table, now is the time to jump on it. I think the current wait time is about 3 months, and as more and more people get theirs, undoubtedly, friends will hear them and have to have one. I'm sure the upcoming NY hi fi show will see tons of orders as well. From what I understand these have been selling like hotcakes, so clearly analog is very healthy right now.
Jeff at Highwater Sound has been very patient with my continued armboard changes. First I ordered it with a Schroder 2 armboard, then changed the order to a Phantom armboard, then recently to the bronze board. He never tried to upsell me to the bronze, or even to try to get me to buy the Raven One at all! I was there to pick up and return a Tron Seven phono pre amp for home audition, (which is now on order as well) and saw all his amazing tables, and sold one to myself.
By the time my table arrives, I will have probably changed the armboard order again, since I have now found another arm that I believe will be better than the Phantom I have sitting here in a box.
my new tonearm
I just got my Raven One delivered, set up and expertly adjusted by Jeff at Highwater Sound.
Though my hi fi is a bit jury rigged now since my preamp is back at the manuf. for adjustment, I can easily hear the character of the table vs. my previous table.
Just off the bat after hearing a side or two, my impressions are that Instruments emerge from a nice dark background and launch with great energy and naturalness.
Cymbals are also much cleaner, and have a better body to them.
I can't imagine anyone not being happy with this table (I have the Phantom arm)
I also feel really lucky to have found such a committed analog dealer/set up guru that lives nearby.
I'll post more impressions soon, then after I get my preamp back. The Tron phono stage will complete the front end (I currently dont have enough gain from my phono stage) so then I'll really get to hear the music this table/arm is making.
I was previously running a Well Tempered Classic with black damped platter, on goldmund cones (much better than the rubber feet) and with upgraded arm wiring.
My existing cart is the Sumiko Celebration, which was on the WTT and now on the Raven.
What I found is that for me, the Raven One sounds much better without the Millenium mat.
Dynamic contrasts are outstanding. Guitar riffs on MFSL AJA just solo'd themselves from the background on cue.
The Mat (CF side up) seemed to deaden this sensation. The guitar riffs never jumped out at me. It just wasn't as dynamic and high resolution. It was smoother and seemed to benefit from using the Millenium clamp, though.
Without the mat, I think I like it a bit better without the clamp. Piano transients are very bold without the clamp (maybe too much so?), and tempered a bit with the clamp in place. The clamp seems to make images a biut more polite, recessed and more center filled, as opposed to a wider more up front soundtage. I still am testing to see which is better.
I even tried the super thin "mat" from the Sumiko Analog survival kit. This is actually film lighting diffusion, and a very thin open weave. It too tended to blur details.
Has anyone else found it to be the case that the bare Delrin is just more dynamic and high resolution?
The Raven One, to me is so much more akin to hearing a master tape vs. my old table.
The bandwidth of each instrument, and the entire spectrum is so much wider.
Even a few instruments have popped up in recordings where there none, or just further down in the mix.
Image solidity is outstanding as well. And all in a way that doesn't distance you from the music as being purely spectacular.
Pianos are fuller with better distinction. Voices ring extremely natural and extended, giving the impression of a singer right there in the room.
Joe Jackson's Body and Soul is a wonderful, though digital recording and the sense of the the acoustic space of the converted Mesonic Temple here in NYC where it was recorded has never been so present as with the Raven One/Phantom combo.
The bass drum on that LP was positioned up on a platform and far back but has never displayed such authority, speed, solidity and solidness of tone.
I used to drum a bit so I'm sensitive to how drums and cymbols sound. All drums are a relevation with this table.
The bass I am experiencing is very fast, deep and articulate.
And this is all without the table truly being set for VTA. I will start playing with that soon.
BTW I have the bronze armboard upgrade.
I know tables are hard to hear and compare these days, but anyone thinking about a table in this price range can safely purchase the Raven One without hesitation. I can't see anyone not being impressed by the sound it throws at every point in the spectrum. It would be an intersting match however to hear it stacked up against a Gavia, which I think is in a similar price range. For me though, the compact dimensions and smaller weight of the One were a better match to apartment living.
I eventually want to try it on a Sistrum stand or their new Stage 2 rack system.
The Sistrum stands were an amazing improvement to the monitor section of my speakers.
I recently had the pleasure of a visit from none other than Thomas Woschnik, from TW Acoustic, who tweaked my table and and combo even further.
The One is already in the "super table catagory" I and other owners feel, and I am going to try it on a Sistrum stand over a 1&1/4" piece of Slate, as well as get my Tron Seven Phono stage running in the system next week.
It should be fun for a cheap little analog set up.
I just got my Raven One up off it's feet and onto a Sistrum SP004 stand sitting on a new 1" slab of slate. I wanted to order the Sistrum sp-1 but they are currently backordered, and I should get it in 3-4 weeks.
I was actually pretty shocked hearing the table up on the stand/slate.
On Joni Mitchells new Blue pressing the first time I heard her voice it was quite a bit more realistic and jumped out at me. It seemed thinner but more extended at the same time, as if clarified.
On Oscar Peterson's Night Child LP, the last cut, 'Teenager' has some nice cymbal work that always impressed me in it's realism, since I used to play the drums. The bell is mostly played, and up on the Sistrum/slate the presentation was quite different.
As opposed to the nice bell sound I was getting, I am now getting a midrange wide scope of metal being hit. There are quite a bit more textures being displayed. I'm sure some drummer some place could now tell exactly what size and manufacturer it it, and even that maybe it is even a little flat in spots.
There are some other fine details that pop out of the recording in other cuts, like one of the musicians humming along maybe? I'm not quite sure, but I do think that in some systems, this could be an ideal platform for the table.
The table just sounds faster as well, and I think I am getting more bass since I seem to be turning down my bass amp more, and maybe hearing room mode more. I dont think this is feedback, but maybe more bass energy being transmitted, which of course will exacerbate any room modes.
It has only been a few hours since seting this up, and I have noticed with my Sistrum stands under my speakers that they do get even better after a day or two (but I fail to understand why, but Starsound indicates this can happen)
I also get the impression of everything being shifted down in the frequency spectrum a bit. Maybe this is simply a function of the table being new tuned to a different resonance point?
So the cute little Micky Mouse eared table gets even better.
I'm not sure if Starsound has a 30 day return policy, but I think anyone with a Raven One or AC should try this. (though as I said the SP1 or even SP-101 may be a better match, especially for the size of the AC) Thomas from TW seemed to think it may be a good idea to try this combo out, and he was the one that suggested the slate.
I am getting getting acoustic breakthrough with this setup tapping the wooden stand the table sits on. With the Millenium feet attached, there was no breakthough, so obviously they were well designed and provided some type of suspension.
The trick for me now will be to keep the profound benefits of the Sistrum stand and try to eliminate the breakthrough that I feel may be muddying up and increasing the bass a little bit.
Also my table is within a few feet of my speakers, so this may be more of an issue for me than for other people's rooms.
I'd like to find people with other unsuspended table using Sistrum stands to see thier setups.
Someone suggested a Minus K platform, but I understant that while excellent, is rather expensive for the level of improvement.
I think what I plan to do is once I get my preamp back and can play CD's (I'm analog only right now) I will
put the needle on a record that is not spining, then play a CD and pink/white noise, then take the output of my phono pre and
hook that up to my computer and analyze the breakthrough I am getting to see what level I am getting and at what frequencies.
This I suppose could help in determining how I want to proceed from there.