MHDT Orchid TUBE ROLLING
I picked up this one https://www.vivatubes.com/nos-nib-rare-heintz-kaufman-usa-5670-2c51-396a-black-plate-vacuum-tube/ just got it ..putting it in today... heres the the list of preferred tubes from mhdt |
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I am the person who introduced the idea of using 6922/ecc88 family tubes in mhdt DACs, in the head-fi forum. As stated you need an adapter. I took a flyer on the idea after experimenting with every 5670 compatible variant tube. There were certainly great and meaningful differences among them but I evaluated the trade-offs between them as too constricting. Happening upon an adapter lit the bulb. It's surprising that it works so well, because in the mhdt DACs, that output buffer position has the 6922 operating with a B+ around or slightly under 25v. Very unusual. But sometimes that works and in this case you give up nothing to get plenty. Going back to Havana Balanced ten years ago, through Atlantis, Pagoda and Pagoda Balanced, my preferred 5670-compatible tubes were Bendix 1964 production 6385, and Bendix or Hytron 2c51. The Tesla NOS equivalent was in the same realm. They pushed these DACs to be meaty, vivid and natural. But something was given up, a little, in elasticity and nuance. The ecc88/6922 delivers everything good about the best 5670 compatible tubes, gives up nothing, then adds more. You'll hear big gains in soundstage dimensioning. Music is dynamically unleashed, spatially liberated and tonally more authentic still than what you expect from mhdt. Bass is deeper where appropriate, more fully realized and textured. In voice you hear more of the whole human pipe, less restriction to the throat. The whole presentation is harmonically more complete, vivid yet relaxed, natural. I use CCa and CV2492 tubes. Siemens and Valvo NOS 6922 work well too. Phil |
I have followed the recommendation made by 213cobra and have now rolled an Amperex made in Holland 6DJ8 into my Orchid. I know my new tube has not burned in at all yet.But out of the box I am hearing what he has predicted. I'd describe the change as a more fully fleshed-out tone. I suppose what that means for me is that the already very good midrange of the Orchid has filled out even more. The female vocal I just listened to has more depth and sounds warmer and more beautiful. Really looking forward to the sound improving as this tube burns in.@213cobra Thanks for the recommendation! |
I should have mentioned that I'm using the 5670/6DJ8 tube socket adapter available on-line. It did not require any circuit modifications. Also, now that I'm a couple of hours in, and listening to some orchestral music, the new tube continues to provide a more fully fleshed out timbre. I'd describe it as the note fundamentals are fuller and a tiny bit more realistic, though I don't know how that is possible. |
He asked for 5670 to 6922 which is what I gave him, I didn't see the reverse on their website; that aside here is a link that grannyring posted short while ago under the MHDT Orchid vs Amber 3 Forum for a site that he said his buddy found the adapter at for his Orchid http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm |
The Orchid takes 5670 tubes. The adapter needs to convert 5670 pin configuration to 6922 pin configuration. What I am looking for a HIGH QUALITY pin adapter, not just any old adapter, that is, one with quality components and construction. I am aware of the adapters cited. In other words, what I am hoping for is feedback on adapter quality. Perhaps the ones cited fit the bill, I just don't know. In general, there is a lot of junk out there. |
“I'm using the 5670/6DJ8 tube socket adapter available on-line. It did not require any circuit modifications...” This is just a curiosity question. Is the adapter just “adapting” the pin outs or also compensating for the differences between the two tubes’ electrical characteristics? According to the tubes’ data sheets, there are some differences between their characteristics that could theoretically result in different sonics but that could be at the expense of stressing other components in the circuit, or the tube itself. I’ve heard of anecdotal examples where folks have used a “wrong” tube but liked the sonics results better. |
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Not many sets of Torx go down to the t8 size, most stop at t10. Fortunately I had a more complete engineering set that went to t8. I know you can buy the t8 torx on eBay if you cannot find a set with one in it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/231778375402 |
I know the 'normal' route is to throw money at a problem or spend more with an upgrade. However I found out many years ago with my Havana dac that after a pretty short break in of 50hrs or so the 6H3P Russian tube has all the clarity, bloom, bass slam, and midrange of any tube I've tried. Very cheap yet sounds like a million bucks....easily beat my Tung-Sol, Ratheon etc. They found a permanent home in both my Havana and my Orchid. Best thing is, since they are so cheap I don't feel bad leaving them on, even when I am away. |
gelle... Siemens made valves are from German and the European 6922 (American designation) equivalent is the e88cc. Many tube dealers, such as Brent Jessee, carry them. Top of the Siemens line is the CCa, followed by the e188cc (American 7308), the e88cc and the ecc88. Does that answer your question? |
@pmboyd Thanks. Yea I have bought from Brent in the past. Got my WE 396 D getter from him. Looks like he is out of stock on most of the tubes you mentioned. He has some of the E88CC / 6922 Siemens, West Germany made, 1960s wide getter support post, gold pins in stock. Might try those. Need to see if the “ the Getter support post” is a wider tube than what I’m currently using and if it will fit (with adapter) into my Orchid. |
after reading all the info on the mhdt I borrowed a friend’s solid state Constantine and went out and bought the Orchid your sixmoons review and this hilarious review of multiple mhdt dacs where very helpful http://www.basshead.club/mhdt-labs-pagoda-stockholm-atlantis-and-canary/ I picked The Orchid - a gorgeous schoolteacher. Sophisticated, tempting, and, romantic. I just started breaking in the dac 4 days ago. My friend found me some NOS Heintz and Kaufman 2C51 gammatrons just breaking one of them in thanks to everyone |
I know this thread has been dead for a while, but I thought I’d share a report on my tube swap, which was inspired by landing here through a search. I lived with my recently acquired Orchid for several weeks with the supplied GE 5670, but after discovering this thread I was inspired to try some tubes from the 6922 family. I ended up with a Siemens A-frame E88CC (using the Garage1217 adapter which works great). The Orchid sounded nice enough with the GE 5670, but the Siemens created a shocking improvement. At the risk of sounding like a generic audio review (but all true), what I’m hearing is a greatly expanded and precise soundstage, previously unheard air in voices, and elements in recordings that I had no idea were there (for example, the birds singing in the intro section of the Latin Playboys track Lemon n’ Ice). Bass is very good with no exaggerated plumpness. The only caution is that the Siemens tube is taller than the 5670, and with the added height of the adapter it protrudes through the hole in the top of the case, maybe 5/8" or so. I’m listening mostly to TIDAL Masters via the TIDAL app on a MacBook Pro. If anyone is curious, associated components are a Simaudio Moon SE integrated, ProAc AC 100’s (bi-wired), Schitt USB cable, Audience interconnects and PowerChord, and Mapleshade speaker wire. |
I considered the garage 1217 adapter 5670 to 6922 couple months ago. I also hear some using a 5670 to 6sn7 adapter. Anyone try the 6sn7 in the MHDT. I have a lot of 6922's but even more of the 6sn7's. I'm going to order the 6922 and 6sn7 adapter after reading this and see what happens, hopefully nothing is going to burst into flames. |
I considered the garage 1217 adapter 5670 to 6922 couple months ago. I also hear some using a 5670 to 6sn7 adapter. Anyone try the 6sn7 in the MHDT. I have a lot of 6922’s but even more of the 6sn7’s. I’m going to order the 6922 and 6sn7 adapter after reading this and see what happens, hopefully nothing is going to burst into flames. nothing will burst into flames... the 6sn7 adapter from garage 1217 is a quality piece, and it is fun to try many 6sn7 variants old and new... lovely sound, very airy, can roll tubes to achieve euphonic coloration or drive and transparency significantly more variation is sq from various 6sn7’s than 6dj8s (via that adapter) and much more than 2c51/5670’s which has a narrow field of choice just know that in all these tubes, we are talking dual triodes in a single tube - each channel runs though one side of the tube, so reasonable internal triode balance is important |
Another bump to the thread. I have been auditioning some 7308 / E188CC tubes with the Garage1217 adapter. Thanks to Brent Jesse I have been experiencing an expanded soundstage, richer sound with less grain. My previous tubes are the WE 396a and my former favorite, the TungSol black plate D-getter. The WE was a little to soft for me, but I have a nice 6SN7 tube pre, which the combo might be too much of a good thing. But the 7308's are just a great addition to my modded Orchid. Thanks 213cobra for getting the idea started here. |
