Are you Guys Rich or What!?

i've been out of college for a year and a half, turn 24 in a couple weeks, work freelance, make jack, and have about $30K retail in gear, around 14-ishK out of pocket thanks to good deals and some luck. My parents don't give half a crap about music and don't give me money. I'm still trying to figure out how i've done it. Scary things happen when us impressionable youth show up on audiogon. Two years ago I had a midfi system at best. I am badly addicted, slightly insane and don't mind periods of fasting. The system does a fine job of covering up the hunger pangs LOL.

I am a poor college student with parents what are well off. My systems retail is impressive to me lol but is still on the cheap end even though I have speakers that would denote a much more expensive system. I curentley earn very little money I work at a gym and a retal store and I also work for Marsha Blackburn (in congress 7th district tn).

Boy I could easily spend 100K for a dual use system, and as far as "status" one friend has been over to see my humble gear in almost 2 yrs. I feel no need to show it off, and actually fear it being stolen by someone who either stole it or told someone else about my system...so as for me, I could spend it if I had it, but nobody but you guys would know!
P.S. to qualify why I dont have more company, I am disabled and moved to a new town, so thats a big part of it

lol, reminds me of when I was in college (with no money, of course) yet was able to amass a true audiophile system for the times consisting of:

Thorens T-160C w/stanton 681EEE
AR3a's
various tube amps
Citation Reciver (man, i wish i still had this!)

took awhile, and i REALLY searched, but it wasn't very expensive. (Later, when i got a bit of money, my system was appropriately expensive, lmao).

Mvwine you are my hero. I have to walk at least 20 feet to get to my wine rack. If only they could make a audiophile quality CD player that also dispensed wine I would be in Audio heaven.

It's the price of some cables and tweaks that make me almost agree with outsiders that this is a rediculous hobby.I think a new syatem of $5K given what can be gotten sound wise is all that somebody need to pay.I have been very patient and lucky and have built a system from used components that has an MSRP of $15 for 1/3 of that.Hey maybe it all is mrally repugnant ina completely altruistic world of mother Teresa's and Albert Schweitzers (spelling???) but it ain't.But given my income I have a syatem for this being my primary hobby that if I were majing $150 a year I might have a $100K system.But if I fantisize about it then I think of building a better rooom and it is foolish to think what if.My priority could change drastivclly.But you know what?I like the people who are in this hobby.Passionate about the senses and the sensual and have an asthetic sense which is interesting.Be very interesting though prpbably disrupting to find out what folks political inclinations are.

I have a $50-$60,000 system that I bought over the years ALL on Audiogon for about $10,000. It's the only way to go. Never had any problem either (knock on wood). Any other way I could not have afforded it. I know it sounds like a commercial but... ( & by the way I am a stock broker too)
Have fun.

3 elements help: No kids, don't over spend on other things, and bargain-hunt for used gear. Key concept: priorities.

A childless household is more likely to have the money, space, and time to dabble in music/audio pursuits than one with children. How many AudiogoN ads have text that says something like, " Selling gear because we are expecting a (another) child"?

I find it odd that audio "civilians" seem to take an incredulous delight in scoffing at the high prices of specialty audio gear; yet, they think it perfectly normal to buy new, gas-guzzling trucks or SUV's every three years; or own boats; or regularly take resort vacations. Buying that SUV, boat, or blowing money in Las Vegas is completely their prerogative. So, why does it bewilder the audio uninitiated that some audio nerds forgo trucks, boats, or Las Vegas (except CES, of course) so they can afford $25,000 (or what-ever) audio systems?

Lastly, as so many on this thread have pointed out, exploiting the used market lets the experienced audio geek assemble a satisfying music system for about half that system's retail price. Smart choices and good setup (vibration control, synergetic cabling, wise speaker placement, etc.) can go a long way. Often, well-assembled less costly systems sound better than do poorly assembled expensive ones.

A well-chosen music system can deliver a mind-calming, soul-stirring transformation in its listener on demand in her own home. I can think of far worse uses of funds.

(Disclaimer: I bear no hostility to children or loving parents who choose to replicate themselves in this World. I include myself when I affectionately use the phrases 'audio nerd' and 'audio geek.' No malice, humiliation, or denigration is intended to anyone who may have been called nerd or geek by others in the past. While I personally do not choose to own a truck or SUV, I do not hold it against anyone else who feels the need to do so. We live in a wonderful World in which even cities like Las Vegas have a place. I apologize to anyone who may have inferred harm from my comments.)

It's all relative, every hobby has a stratosphere. I go to gun shows and see $50,000 shotguns that some people use to hunt or compete with. Those same people can be waxed in competition by a poor bumpkin with a $1200 gun. Then they console ourselves that even though they lost, "they looked damn good doing it." [:)]

First ask how important nirvana is to you. What will you sacrifice for it. And is it worth it. Do you really have golden ears. How much difference can you "really" hear. Just being in a high end salon looking at all the toys will get your ears burning. Be conscious of that. I REALLY hate to quote Star Trek, but, "You may find wanting is far more satisfying a thing than having." I know I've lusted for stuff bought it and even though it is really nice I sometimes question the purchase in hindsight. (see the spritual vs. material posts) Somebody is always going to have a better system. Millions will have worse ones. Try not to get the "fever" (easier said than done.) And try to find that sweet spot. In the end, a stellar system could make a big difference in the quality of your "golden years." Life is hard, especially when you try to live it with wisdom. I know I'm still learning. Whew!! too deep think I'll go for a walk and eat a cookie.

Me rich?! NOT. I'm a recent graduate with a good paying technical job, but it is an intresting trade off between paying off school loans, my music, and eating. I buy most everything used that can usually be sold at little or no loss. I contracted the "audio bug" from a friend. Who knew it was such a virulent contagion? I wouldn't ever give it up though. With a long commute and long hours, it's my way to unwind.

In my house, wine and audio are real close - my wine cabinet is just about three steps from my stereo!

Oh Ben, how right you are about that! But, you know, if you read wine reviews, they sound alot like audio reviews. "The bouquet is palpable","The unctious collection of flavors dances on your pallet", etc. Perhaps the two hobbies are closer related than many believe. Cheers!

Twl,
Yes but your system only cost $2k because you spent all your money on wine,$2k-lol.

I have just $2k in my system and love it. I am not a neophyte to audio, nor am I rich. I just know what I like and found a way to get it - within my price range. Now you may smile at that, but my system is a direct-in(no preamp), tube OTL, DIY single-driver speakers setup that would, no doubt, sound very pleasing indeed to most, if not all, of the $100k system owners on this thread. After 25 years in audio, I found out how to focus in on exactly the sound I wanted, and researched the gear that could get me there. It can be done, and done well. Enjoyed the thread. Good listening to one and all.

Now that the moral ceiling on audio equipment expenditures has been established at 7500 I suggest all of us immoral types make amends by dumping our equipment on the used market so the morally and otherwise politically correct can snap up the Krell, Levinson, Wadia, Wisdom etc. gear at morally correct bargain prices.

It's not about how much you spend it's the enjoyment you get from the music. When I got out of college in 1976 the first thing I bought was as car (used) to get to work and next was my first stereo system. Mcintosh solid state seperates and Dalquist DQ10 speakers and a sub. This system served me very well for a number of years. To this day I still use the the Mac amp and pre amp and have upgraded to JM Utopia speakers (used) and a Cary 303 CD player (used). I will change out the amp and pre amp to Conrad Johnson equipment and add a sub for the speakers. I will never by new equipment again. This site provides great opportunites to gear at half the retail price. My tastes in music have changed over the years and I have extensive number of LP's and CD's. You can create an environment for every occasion! Music will set you free.

In electronics engineering, we go by a rule of thumb that after the circuit is built, each effort to improve it by just 10% will double the costs.
Now don't apply this literally, but I did like sgmlaw's letter, posting the opinion that this is a hobby of diminishing returns.
Once you have a system you are happy with (didn't it knock your socks off when you bought it?) you are wise to enjoy it. Right now, people are drunk with money. The 'two-years removed' approach is very good advice, in my opinion.

I have read this thread as a "new" person with some interest and it seems to me there will be a permanent loop. What is one mans penny is another mans pound. The whole issue is subjective, I am sure that noone here doubts that 100k on music equipment in most contexts is irrational but we justify it because it brings us pleasure and in a world where that particular commodity is getting hard to come by, prices like taxes go up. I for one will always enjoy the reproduction of good music but will again do it by looking for those elusive deals. When your ten year old sits next to you identifying various instruments and presence that is justification enough for me.

Kthomas, you said it! Especially true with the digital gear!!!

If $7500 MSRP will get you a great system, think what you can do by buying all your stuff off of audiogon.

It could cut the price in half or it could allow you the option of purchasing more equipment/dollar.

I agree - stay away from the leading edge, read magazines from two years ago as though they're current, get all excited about what they're raving about and go buy it...used. Stay behind the curve and you'll have all the fun for a lot less money, missing out only on bragging rights.

I found a great way to do this is to have your world turned on it's ear for 18 months or so. Have some personal, professional and national crises all strung together, completely distracting you from whatever you think you want to buy, and come back 18 months later still thinking you want the same thing. The price will be VERY reasonable at this point. You buy the stuff, put it all together, have a fabulous system and imagine that the calendar is rolled back 2 years - you then have a state of the art system that costs mega $$$, only you didn't spend mega $$$. If you pull this off correctly, you get 99% of the thrill with about 33% of the financial pain. -Kirk

Trickle down is the key. Remember when B&W came out with the Nautilus speaker? Then they trickled that technology down to their 800 series, and I see it is even now into the 600 series (I think). I let the big boys blow all their money on top of the line so the company will pass the technology down and I can afford the lower end stuff. It's all relative though. 2k for the N805? I wouldn't think too hard about it, but I know many that would. It's a hobby, do what makes you happy. If it makes you happy to have the latest technology as soon as it appears, more power to you. Me, I'm looking to pick up a Conrad Johnson preamp made in 1984.

I started buying stereo equipment when I was 16 and have been hooked ever since. I have had my share of complete junk in my system but my desire to improve the sound always kept me looking for good deals. I started with a Yamaha AV-34 integrated amp (which I still own) and now at 26 I have just purchased a Plinius SA250MKIII. Is this the end......probably not but I do LOVE the Plinius! Places like Audiogon are key to building a High-Fi system with only a minor investment. I can tell you my systems level of quality jumped up a couple of notches when I discovered this site.

I find that living with a parent who is obsessed with audio equipment is the way to go, you get to listen to there reference level system for free.

Judd

Sorry about that last post of mine, but I couldn't resist. My kids are finished with college my Beautiful high school sweetheart( I class of 71 and my bride class of 72) have just finished building our final home, complete with sound room / living room. Whats wrong with living a good life. Our investments are strong, and my retirement is set. I love this hobby and I love music. It started 30 years ago with me. Back then they thought I was nuts but today they think I'm eccentric, go figure. Peace and Good Listening.

Yes, I am rich.

I think most people who are looking at Equipment on the AudiogoN website are Stereo enthusiasts who are looking for a good deal on top notch stereo gear! Some people have more excess money to spend on this hobby than others. There should be no guilt attached to putting together a nice system. Are the prices for high end stereos a bit ridiculous, heck yeah!(Power Cords that retail for $4,000, PLEASE!) But then so are sports cars and everything else that is the best of the best. This website helps many Stereo hobbyist afford nicer equipment than they could normally afford. It's great. I would say most people aren't rich who read(and use) this website, just a bit enthusiastic about their hobby (stereo & video gear)! :) I really enjoy this hobby and especailly doing one upgrade at a time to hear each little improvement. It's a fun hobby that only hurts my checkbook from time to time.

Easy there "cornfedboy"!!!

The very word "HUGE" is a realative term. "HUGE" to me means "OH MY GOD I HAD NO IDEA SOUND COULD BE THIS GOOD"!!!

Yes... I suppose that replacing all my equipment with the latest super high-end equipment would make a noticable change...unfortuantly I would have no change ($) left in my pocket!
I was answering a post from a guy who obviously does'nt have all the money in the world, but still appriciates good sound. You, on the otherhand, obviously have all the money in the world to try every frontend, every power source, every preamp, every speaker, every stand, every wire and every tweak available (good for you!). Perhaps with all the extra equipment you have sitting around you could give it to the guy who started this post!!!

You sir, have the audiophile sickness worse than any other "audiogoner" I've ever read.

Go outside and take a walk!

Sean- "the chase is better then the catch", you know her too! after all the work it just isn't worth it.

I've always wanted to try to build a budget rig, after I get the BIG system sounding good-to me, anyway- set a budget of about 2k or so and just be patient and try to find the best gear out there for the money that will work good together. But that will be a while down the road I am out of rooms for the moment!

BTW CFB your in an odd mood today, did someone taint your corn? lol Your post on WHO RU? seems as though you may had a few too many in ya at the point, eh? Cheers!
Tim

and i agree with sean, entirely! -cfb

I agree with what Kelly is saying up to a certain point. There are sometimes DRASTIC differences that one can run into by varying the combination of equipment within a system. Sometimes this has little to do with price although it TYPICALLY costs more to make a better product. Then again, sometimes you just run across a combo that defies logic and the cost constraints of "high end".

For those that do not follow a logical plan of attack, dumping tons of money into a system can seem quite frustrating and frivilous. A song by Motorhead comes to mind: "The Chase is Better Than The Catch". Shopping and comparing gear is fun, but it is MUCH more enjoyable when everything comes together as you'd like it to. This is true regardless of price. Sean
>

mhubbard: can you explain, please, how you know with such apparent conviction, that "anything I add at this point will not make a huge difference"? i assume that you offer up this assertion after having tried every frontend, every power source, every preamp, every speaker, every stand, every wire and every other component or tweak available in the universe in your very own home. yeah, right. -cfb

Dont forget that there is a point of diminishing (spelling error?) return. I have about 15K in my system, and I know that anything I add at this point will not make a huge difference. This hobby is more like a sickness.

Audiophile does not have to = audio snob I have a wealthy friend that shops at the local "Tiffany" audio salon . He paid almost $60,000.00 for a "Class A " stereo from all the top brands. Yes his system is great but my system for about 25% of that is almost as good. I have put systems together for under two grand that are great musical systems that play at concert sound levels. It is difficult but simple Buy value not hype. It's tough to sort through all the magazine BS but there out there . For example the 70's Luxman receivers and seperates are so great and cheap. they compare to new suff costing 5 times as much . The Luxman 1120 is simply awesome ! Tandberg 2075 , 2080 both include phonos . How about Fisher tube receivers , H.H. Scott 299 int. amps are astonishingly good ! , The AR turntable for under $ 100.00 . I could go on for a long time . If you want a musical system for a song ask a knowledgable audiophile . Also buy the brands that are not as popular. Sonic frontiers makes the best gear , They are not the most popular at times. read learn and ask. When the Mark II comes out buy the mark I etc. REMEMBER ITS ABOUT THE MUSIC !

Having been bitten by the "Bug" right here, on Audiogon, I have to weigh in on this one. After two years of buying, selling, learning etc., I have a system that to my ears,and a good many others, sounds incredibly good. I purchased all of the more important pieces used (cd, int. amp, speakers) and saved better than half what they cost new. They were all only a few months old and all under warranty. I would not have been able to pay for any of it at regular retail, and could sell each item for more than I paid for it. My total investment so far is approx 4k. I'm not rich, and do not have money to burn. Those who do have my undying gratitude. I don't mind picking up their cast-off's, or letting them pay "whatever". They've done me a favor, and I hope the trend continues. I can say, however, that the best thing that I have come across in terms of audio equipment has been totally free: this website and all of you who care enough to contribute your opinions and share your knowledge.
Thank you.

Well Buckingham my name is Tim and I would like if you would site me as a reference when using my quote.....J/K. What's up nice to hear from another younger audiophile(I am 20). I agree with planning/personal development(I invest about 5:1 what I spend on anything, including audio), "those who fail to plan, plan to fail" some of my not so well of friends laugh at me, but in the end I will be sitting fat, living the good life(or so my financial advisors tell me :) Here's to years of audio enjoyment, and a life of prosperity!

Tim

I am definetely not RICH.. But I do love Audio.. I'm 21 and I have over 10K in my system. This isn't much in the Audiophile world, but it is musical and makes me tap my toes. My friends buy cars and bass systems on credit and spend their cash wastefully. I make one major purchase every year and live quite nicely the rest of the year. It's all about how you manage your money (having a good job helps too). Make sure you spend as much money on personal development as you do on other stuff like audio. Not trying to be a smart ass, just stuff I learned from some wealthy friends. "If you want to be successful you have to surround yourself with successful people" not too sure who that one is originally from.

1. My wife and I both love music and typically the same type of music.
2. We justify our expenditures by the car test. Do you spend more time in your car or listening to your stereo? If the answer is your stereo then you could justify spending the same amount of bucks ie >= $25K even for two off model year cars.
3. In many cases its not the sound system that's the expensive part. We purchased a house with the stereo on mind. Large room 18x 22 x 9 celing. Now that was the most expensive piece of sound gear I've ever purchased!!!

I am glad a friend of mine, divorced who gave up his expensive car hobby, has a reference Audio Note system built around the DAC 5 and the Ongaku; only non audio note item is the Levinson reference CD transport. This system is 150 grand of pure heaven; never heard anything like. I survive on my almost entry level Audio Note stuff and will upgrade to a bit better stuff in increments.

Hey Tom, Go to audioclassics.com. Speak to a guy named Frank Gow. He will set you up with a great system for WAY less than $50,000, probably $10-15k. They sell used as well as new, but, the thingf I like about them kis there used gear, if listed as excellent, looks and operates as if it was bought yesterday! Frank's dad started McIntosh along with Mr.McIntosh in '49 and is a VERY knowledable guy. Tell him Sal sent you. Good luck,

i just turned 32, and my system retail is ridiculous. it took me 12 years of buying, trading, selling,etc to reach where i am. i am by no means rich, but i eat 5to six times a day and workout daily. and work fulltime . self employed though. buying used and trading will get you their somday.

Every single piece in my system was purchased used or on auction. Full retail (puhleze!) would be ~$15,000. Actual cash spent is $5929.00. This includes $500.00 to completely upgrade the Pass Aleph P pre amp including all new metal. I work an extra job on Thursday only & use that money for my upgrades. I also have to use that money for anything else I want including a new shotgun, sofa, etc., so I'm still very careful about what I buy. There are good deals to be had & a few exceptional ones. I work too hard to skimp on my meals but also drive a 1984 Honda Civic. Vehicles used to mean a lot more to me but all I care about now is getting from point A-B, although I do have a 1985 Chev pick-up that has a very real 350 HP 350 tied to a TCI turbo 350. Oh well, that's another "hobby" that costs money! I'm not in a very high tax bracket so I can't buy too much, but like someone else mentioned, my neighbor has a boat & I have a stereo. To each his own!

My formula (and I think the formula for others in these challenging economic times) is one word: value. That means paying 33% to 50% of retail for most everything, unless the piece has a very high value already and is difficult to obtain discounted. This high value category could include the above-cited Newform Research speakers and other high end stuff that's sold only direct (i.e not with three levels of markup) Brian's Whale power cords are a good expample of this, as they represent a high value to cost ratio, when compared with other cords costing triple or more.

Another example of value: I recently stole a Placette active line stage pre for 1/2 of the factory direct price through an Audiogon auction. To me, paying 50% for the Placette was akin to buying Krell or Levinson for 25% of list, as Placette spends 50% of its costs on materials alone. It's that value equation again.

Cables are another kettle of fish. Some are so hopelessly overpriced that I try for 20% of retail, or even less. This doesn't mean that these (NBS,etc.)cables aren't worth every penny, just that you should never pay retail, because, if you hang out here it's easy to save at least 60%. And if you want to try an exotically priced cable that doesn't have the resale value of Cardas or Nordost, be preapered to take a bath if you have to resell.

But what about high-buck cables that are also high value and have a widely-accepted cache associated with their name? I'm thinking here of Nordoes and Cardas.

Would I pay retail to "Valhalasize" my systems with Nordost's best if I could (a) afford to (b) thought they made a big diffence. Yes. After hearing them this weekend, they DO make a differnce, as much IMHO as a significant component upgrade. Therefore to me, these $3,300 interconnects and $6K+ speaker cables do have "value", despite their make-you-choke lsit price. The icing on the cake is that Nordost's good name will keep the resale value high, further helping me justify the purchase if I can afford to do so.

Speaking of affordability, at the Toronto show this weekend I had a chance to listen to some highly synergistic systems that far exceeded what I can afford. Value at full retail? ...I'm not so sure. But if I could stomach the payments, and I got a bit of discount, and the dealers weren't so damm snobby ... and we were in better economic times, and we had world peace ...well, you get the idea. So let's add one more variable to the value equation: synergy.

I realize I'm wandering a bit here, but let me tell you about the two stand-out rooms in Toronto:(Other rooms had $100K+ systems that sounded much WORSE than my humble Kefs and this includes the room featuring the stunning new B&W 800 with the Signature finish.)

The first standout room was set up by Inner Ear magazine, a Canadain rag that I have new-found respect for after talking at length to two of its writers. Gersham Opera Savages powered by a $22,000 15 Watt pair of Tenor monoblocks. (Sorry, I can't remember the preamp.) Nordost's Valhallas on everything and a giant Tice power conditioner took care of getting the signal to where it should be without any coloration. Redbook as good as my SACD was had through the AA Capitole, which by the way, was used in 5+ rooms at the show. Even garden variety CDs sounded rich and room filling with absolutely no fatique. I listened for over an hour, paying more attention to the artist rather than trying to nit-pick the system. True synergy for under $100K. And I even had a heart-to-heart with Eli Gershman, the Opera's designer. When he knew I was serious about these speakers, Eli went to great lengths to distinguish this flagship Opera Savage from my other lust for life, the Gershman Gap. Hint: the Opera goes a little lower, but more importantly has wider dispersion, whereas with the Gaps, you need to sit "right here". My only knock against the Opera Savage is that are, to put it diplomatically, odd looking and quite frankly a bit ugly, especailly after being seduced by the B&W 800's. If I bought the Savages, my wife would say my hobby "belongs in the basement", whereas the B&Ws would surely be worthy of the living room.

Across the hall (which kind'a made an intersting A/B comparison possible) was a pair of Nearfield Acoustics Pipedreams. These damm things, which looked like 10 bookself speakers glued end-to-end, almost touched the ceiling and intimidated all of all the audiophile sardines packed into the miniscule 12'x15' hotel room. The P'Dreams reminded me of those 30-foot triple-stretched limos: grotesque and surely excessive. And they weren't even accurate (when comapred to the Opera Savage). So why am I in love? Powered by the Tenor $29K 75 Watt tube monos, the Pipedreams quite simply replace a live soundstage. What these towers can do so much better than lesser, mere mortal speakers, is produce a live, life-size perfomance ambience that lets you visualize the band members in size-as 3D. Instruments had height as well as being right "there", every instrument was raised off the floor, as on a real stage, with the drum kit still higher, on a drummer's platform. Depth exceeded the walls of room. A glance over to the component wall also revealed the Audio Aero Capitole providing the source signal. I was in such a state of pipedreamed lull, that I forgot to note the preamp and cabling (sorry!)

So put away the instruments that measure accuracy, extension and whatever else the rags technically harp over, the Pipedreams are not about that; they simply bring the performers into you room and let you reach out and touch them. And no instrument can measure that. Getting back around to the subject head of "value", would I pay the $100K+ asking price for this system? In a heartbeat. And it's a much better value than that &#@%! Nortel stock in my portfolio that was supposed to let me realize my own pipedream.

I'll do a more comprehensive show report after it finishes today. --Lorne

I must have missed this thread, dunno how that was possible??? Well I read it all and there are a lot of good points made, I agree that most serious audiophiles will upgrade to the major's if/when they have the money to do it. I started with a system worth about 7k and now(less then 2 years) it is closer to 40k and climbing rapidly. I find a lot of improvement with my upgrades and I realize one day there will be a point when I can no longer upgrade. The only way I can justify it to myself is thinking of boats, people blow loads of money on boats and use them 6 times a year, well I spend similiar money on my stereo which I can use any day all day if I want. I don't have a wife/girlfriend to contend with so it is not a factor.....yet. Another thing I did was when I got rid of my car(cadillac=high payments) I got a cheaper car(VW=low payments) and now I now have corporate funding for my audio habit, via a monthly payment, life is grand.

I agree with Kthomas -- my system is very nice and I spent less than many people spend on a car (Sierra Denali amps, Montana KAS, MIT Oracle V2, Sierra pream, Perpetual Technologies with Wright mods, California Audio). I tell my wife that a mid-life crisis spend on audio gear will get me in a lot less trouble than spending the same money on a hot car (frankly, I'm not at all convinced that the hot car would do much better, but it makes a good story);-)

As others indicate, you can get a fine system for well under $10,000. For example, I owned a couple of Bryston 7B-ST's, the Bryston preamp and Thiel CS-6's that I'm in the process of selling to my neighbor at blue book (around $8,500 with lots of cables etc. thrown in) -- that is a very nice system! I wouldn't have parted with it unless I ran into some great deals on something far better (and more expensive). You can find great deals on Audiogon! The new systems at full price are for folks who have the money and want the help. If you know what you are doing (or are a good researcher), you can latch on to great deals.

Do some searches on Audiogon and I'm sure you'll come up with a fantastic system for not too much money. Over time, you keep upgrading and spending more, but it's a lot easier on the cash flow than doing it all at once. I'm not rich but do OK -- I guess if I made less money, I'd drive a used car and look for deals on Audiogon and elsewhere. Good luck.

As p1s1, we too are music junkies. Also, on the long path to riches which we will have crossed by the yr. 2099. A large prtion of our money goes to music, live & s/w and the equip to listen to what we cannot hear live (Heifetz? Oistrakh? Gieseking, etc, etc).

I dare say, we're happy with what we have -- rather than coveting what we don't have.

It doesn't make us rich (but you just wait!) >)

Cheers!

...the price of the system grows from the time you've started such hobby(~$2000 "downpayment")not as fast as it seems and you do not have to be Wall-Street-like guy in audio.
The funny thing is that when you upgrade your setup every year or two, audio seems like car-loan payments and within a certain period of time its price can grow upto the cost of luxury car or more even if you're relatively low-income audio freak like I am.
I do sacrifice on car expances and buy only used and old lo-tek US made cars.

PB&J and a frequent shopper of audiogon.

plsl, you r lucky. My wife was very understanding at first, but recently she has put her foot down, I guess I've upgrade one to many times for her. Next year is looking more promissing, which is good cause daddy wants a new subwoofer and another pre.. Not rich, just a good shopper. pete

david, i'm considering the newform research nhb645's or r645's.

angela's point about "hunting instinct" is well-taken - i paid <30% of retail for my current speakers, & i'll have to pay full-boat for the newforms - it'll totally ruin my 3:1 retail-price/paid-price ratio for my system! ;~) but, hopefully, it will exponentially improve the sound of the system, compared to the sound of *cost-no-object* systems... :>)

regards, doug