A must watch YouTube video on stylus in the groove!!!


Google Applied Science LP you tube.  Should be right at top.  Look at those grooves and how the needle is Bouncing!!!!  Now explain how important antiskate, null points, etc are.  If you thought your stylus was running parallel to the smooth groove walls Well so much for that.

This guy is selling nothing in this video.  No hypothesis to let his ego get in the way and no conclusion.  Well  I thought some of the more technical guys might get a bang out of this, regardless if it might make you rethink  your own hypothesis.


Enjoy the ride
Tom
tomwh
Link? Because pasting Google Applied Science LP into youtube gives the same electron microscope video as 4 years ago and its not motion.

Anyway, the phenomenon you think requires rethinking is called jitter.
Bear with the slow intro, its as fascinating as it is relevant.
Can't wait? Skip ahead to 20:20 for jitter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmwnN_T_wW8
So the expert here in the video is using a digital term to describe motions which are actually shear waves that are cut into the the vinyl.. The stylus tracks those inscribed shear waves and converts that motion into an electrical signal. A speaker also has motion and therefore shear waves created at the launch of the voice coil...all that motion and and shear travels on both side of the cone at the same time as well as thru the material.
A record responds much like a cone in motion..2 sides vibrating one being the dominant surface... the shear waves travel on and thru both. The styus reacts to the shear on both material sides and hears both sides. The stylus also hears a polarity of shear that travels on the surface hits the paper center and is reflected back at the stylus. The same happens when energy is reflected from the lip of the record back at the stylus.
None of this happens at the same time.
The intended signal is being corrupted by the constant shift of polarity which are mechanical waves known as shear waves. A reduction in shear wave interference is what needs to be understood in order to reduce overall distortion. Jitter term is used because some do not know of or understand shear wave motion. Tom

Let me guess- you watched precisely.... zero seconds of that video. You have absolutely zero idea what he said. Zero comprehension, for sure.

How many phono cartridges have you built, theaudiotweak? Zero?

How many years experience rebuilding phono cartridges? Zero?

So no wonder the number of things you got right is: zero.

A dazzling display of word salad. Slather some Blue Cheese on and you got something.
Where's the link Tom?
Word salad to you. And that is your lack of understanding and vision. And dont send me a stupid private message like the one you sent in early March. You draw a blank. Tom
Word salad to you. And that is your lack of understanding and vision. And dont send me a stupid private message like the one you sent in early March. You draw a blank. Tom


So you admit you didn't watch the video, didn't listen to even one single word, and so know precisely zero, but are blathering word salad anyway.

Well at least you admit it.

Oh, and the PM in early March? That was trying to stop you from doing real harm to another member. A very kind and innocent member who if I let everyone know what you are doing now you would be outcast. Persona non grata. To bring that up, congratulations, you just sank to the absolute bottom of the barrel.
Uberwaltz thats the one I was going to post. Thank you!

All of this was predicted by Zoeppritz in 1907..it has to do with seismic waves that travel thru the Earth...but also thru all materials.
Vinyl and speaker cones of any type. Your audio room, musical instruments of different materials and shapes. 

So if in the the 50 minute video the vibrational energy was to travel the flat plane and intersect a paper label or the outer edge of the record the energy would be reflected back towards the stylus and become a part of the intended signal..it would become a part of the signal. Not in phase..but it would now have many different phase components because of material type and all boundary interfaces..

When an incident P-wave strikes the boundary (or interface) between two media obliquely, the wave is split into reflected and refracted P-wave components and reflected and refracted S-wave components. The reflection and transmission coefficients vary as a function of the angle of incidence (hence, of source-receiver offset) and of the media's elastic properties, which comprise densities and bulk and shear moduli. The Zoeppritz equations (Chapter 1) give the reflection and transmission coefficients for plane waves, as a function of the angle of incidence and as a function of the three independent elastic parameters on each side of the reflecting interface. If the reflection amplitude is observed as a function of the angle of incidence, the variation of that parameter can be used to make inferences about the elastic parameters. Tom

Permalink: https://doi.org/10.1190/1.9781560803201.ch4


I did not write the info preceding the link and posting my name at the end.  Sorry I usually sign off the same way every time. Tom
Post removed 
So the OP using two different audiogon accounts ? Why ?
@theaudiotweak is Tom 
@romwh is also Tom 



P.S. The video is from 2015 and i believe everyone seen it before many times 


193,697 male persons in the USA with the name Tom. Tom
I have nothing to add to this conversation except my name is Tom. 

~Tom in Sacramento
Kentucky Tom here. Great Bourbon great Mother Nature and a greater than average  understanding of shear wave transmission in solid materials. Tom
I would just like to add that my name...
Is not Tom....
To my knowledge nobody by the name of Tom was harmed in the making of this thread.
Audiotweak well said.  I will bet there are more than 2 on this very forum.  

Millercarbon if you watch Peters video again and really listen you might want to listen to the part of the Humming bird and averaging etc...  Another interesting note is the engineer needs a job and the employer needs to make a profit.  The complexity of what is going on in a turntable is mind blowing. Another major variable is how good are the inventors ears.  I will bet there are alot of people  who could not hear the difference from the belt version vs rim/idler on your Teres table.

The point I was bringing up is a album is a non straight bumpy road.  If you  have a cheap usb mircoscope shoot a picture of a album.  Then think about antiskate and how well it can react to the speed of hit rebound.  Then think about all the rest of the variables, known and unkown. 

As with most things in life I may not know what is perfect but I normally know if it is really wrong.  In regards to being a newbie I build my 1st Teres like turntable about 20 years ago when the whole project was going on.  Used 3 different Teres controllers thru the years.  Now running 2 and 3 phase 35 -50 watt motors with custom built controllers.  So set up right next to each other, 3 tables and 5 arms that I can run with belt/tape/string or idler within 5 minutes.  The Platters are 35 to 55 pounds.  The latest is aluminum/delrin/brass/lead/brass/lead/brass/pvc sandwich which is lead shot loaded like your Teres but more holes and lead shot.  Also built 10,12, 13,14, 16 inch tone arms with various woods, aluminum, and carbon fiber.  Some of the arms are attached to the plinth others to their own platforms.  I could go on and on but you get the idea. 

On a side note, if you already have not done it,  try different hardness and types of o'rings on your rim drive.  There are lots of arguments why this could or could not make a difference, but it is cheap and you can listen for yourself.

Enjoy the ride
Tom
I reluctantly stayed at Motel 6 once and I have to admit it wasn’t that bad....thanks Tom
hahaha, it's even more fun now
My name is Tom. No harm has yet come to me due to this thread.

Now, what are you guys going on about? :~)
I watched the video of Peter’s talk at RMAF end to end. Very interesting. I have a lot of respect for his knowledge, expertise, humility, and kindness. He is really exploring the dynamic interface between stylus and groove in a meaningful way. He makes a compelling case for MI designs but at the end of the day I wonder why there are so many MC designs that sound at least as good as one of Peters cartridges. Case in point—owned an AT ART9 that was at least as good to my ear as the twice as expensive MIMC Star—in some key parameters better. If you accept Peters thesis this should not be the case. 
Ledermann is just selling his stuff and distorting reality to do so. Like any good salesman he has made it look.....compassionate. I love how he takes the biggest old antique moving coil assembly to compare with his moving iron. A modern one is significantly smaller and lighter. Moving mass is important, moving effective mass is even more important. Since the masses we are talking about are right next to the fulcrum they are much less important than the mass at the end of the lever (the stylus).
The best manufacturers have gone to great lengths to minimize the mass at the end of the cantilever by creating new ways to bond a naked very small diamond to the cantilever removing as much mass a possible. Of course Peter does not mention this. It is far more important than what happens at the other end. As far as "Jitter" is concerned it is just a marketing term for miss tracking. 
Name me one reviewer that uses a Soundsmith cartridge as their reference. I have not seen one. I have never owned a Soundsmith cartridge because I have never seen a series of reviews that get me interested. Peter's BS is certainly not getting me interested and the condition of his office really scares me away. Sorry MC, you loose me on this one. Go get yourself a Lyra or an Ortofon. Even a Clearaudio or a Koetsu if your tonearm is big enough.
Name me one reviewer that uses a Soundsmith cartridge as their reference. I have not seen one. I have never owned a Soundsmith cartridge because I have never seen a series of reviews that get me interested.

Who cares about reviewers who trying to motivate us to buy a $5000-20000 MC cartridges to use them for 2500 hrs and then to pay at least 60-70% of the retail cost again to get them factory replaced ? If you have unlimited budged for your analog toys then you’re lucky, but i don’t care about reviewer for whom a $30 000 tonearm and $200 000 turntable with $15000 cable is normal. It’s insane, it’s a part of luxury life of reach dudes with very bad taste in music.

Most of them have no clue about great cartridges from the past, so i doubt about their knowledge.

There must be honest reviewers as well for sure, but you can’t trust them, because in your system it can be completely different.

Peter’s BS is certainly not getting me interested and the condition of his office really scares me away. Sorry MC, you loose me on this one. Go get yourself a Lyra or an Ortofon. Even a Clearaudio or a Koetsu if your tonearm is big enough.

Koetsu is extremely expensive cartridge, some Ortofon models also extremely expensive. Service is very expensive.

SoundSmith offering the best service and great price, for normal people this is much more important that those luxury cartridges promoted by reviewers. Some of them will ship their broken luxury cartridge to SoundSmith after all. Who Peter looks like a guy with great experience with all those cartridges, he’s the one who fix them himself.

In my opinion each audiophile must have all types of cartridges (old and new, MM, MI, IM, MC).

Some MI cartridges are great and some MC cartridges are very bad.

mijostyn

Name me one reviewer that uses a Soundsmith cartridge as their reference. I have not seen one. I have never owned a Soundsmith cartridge because I have never seen a series of reviews that get me interested. Peter's BS is certainly not getting me interested ...
That's amazing to me that you wouldn't consider a product unless it had first been subject to a series of reviews. I guess your sort of attitude is what makes things like Stereophile's annual Recommended Components list of such vital importance for some readers.