I’ve watched some of his video and I actually agree on some of what he said, but he seems too confident on his insistence on measurement. For those who expound on the merits of blind test and measurement, why not turn the table upside down?
Why not do a blind test of measurement? That is I will supply all the measurement you want, can you tell me which is a better product?
For example, if I have a set of cable, and a set of measurement for each individual cable, can you tell me which is the best cable based on measurement alone? I will supply all the measurement you want. After all, that is what you’re after right? Objective result and not subjective listening test.
By the way, is he getting paid by Belden? Because he keeps talking about it and how well it measures. I've had some BlueJean cables and they can easily bettered by some decent cables.
"
But sometimes, that's what it takes to deal with certain username. Decency won't work on them."
That may be true, but lowering one's standards does not elevate the person. It makes her/him less credible. Until now, you have offered only insults and claims that djones51 is clueless. Nothing remotely tangible and possibly considered as an argument.
Again, I am taking no side in this aborted technical debate, but am merely noticing pitiful presentations.
Until now, you have offered only insults and claims that djones51 is clueless.
That is because after getting a good education from me, he still hasn't posted anything useful. He keeps asking for data but has no clue how to use them.
So by definition, that is clueless.
Again that's what it takes to deal with these kinds of situation.
And if you keep supporting him, then eventually you're no different than him.
"And if you keep supporting him, then eventually you’re no different than him.
Well, let me try to explain it.
"That is because after getting a good education from me, he still hasn’t posted anything useful. "
"The finger :-)
Sorry but I couldn’t resist."
If that is the kind of education you provided, your level of teaching is suitable for a drunken fight in the bar. If those are things you cannot resist, you may want to revisit kindergarten manners class.
Your explanation why djones51 is clueless bears no logic in it. She/he may really be clueless, but the way you are proving it does not make you seem like someone who is capable of conveying clues about cluelessness.
All you have proven to me is that you are not qualified to "educate". You have posted some graphs, but shown no evidence you understand what they mean. If anything, you have shown you don't. You certainly haven't shown maturity.
^^^You may not be arrogant but still you could be clueless. Did you read his post? Has he posted anything useful even especially I gave him a good lesson? The answer is NO.
I am still waiting to see how he can look at the data only and determine which is the better cable? The dude just blowing hot air but I don't think knows what he talking about.
A quick perusal of andy2's posts reveal an unmistakable pattern. If there is something he does not agree with and if the disagreeing poster does not "bow down", he simply insults them and of course, out comes the lols. He doesn't disprove them, he just insults them. Even when evidence is given, he won't admit his error. I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish, but I just don't think the maturity is there.
It is acceptable to lose ground in some argument. The best way out of it is usually to admit it with a joke or two about how silly you have been and it will fade away quickly. Just insulting people makes you appear, ahem, clueless.
For the record, cables do not make much difference. Your hearing is not that good. I apologize for bringing you the news. If you were a dog, story could have been different. Well, better luck in next drawing.
This appears to be a good time for a lesson on statistical inference. I don’t know either Glupson or andy2 personally. Based on a brief post analysis, using statistical inference, it does appear that andy2 has more knowledge of audio. Based on those same posts, I could also make the inference that Glupson is more intelligent, has better self control, is likely considerably more successful, and obviously significantly classier. One of them probably gets angry when told he has to wear a mask inside a public building. I think we know which one.
I am no expert by a long shot but I can look at 2 different plots and see the difference. No specific cable was mentioned to compare so I just picked speaker cables since it’s easier to use something like REW to take measurements of in room speaker response. After all that’s what we hear speaker and roon interaction. If there is a significant difference it would be readily apparent.
That appears to not be happening so I’ll switch to USB cables. I want the THD+N and Jitter plots from any DAC you choose switching only the USB cable. If possible do a IMD test and Tone input/ sample rate . Use any two cables you want. You want an explanation of how I will use these before you show the measurements. The cable that shows the lowest distortion on Tone input and THD+N or SINAD and Jitter is the better cable.
Shelter in place has not resulted in much self reflection based on this thread. The isolation appears to have divided “them or us” to an even greater extent. If the topic becomes really important, I wonder if we should even attempt to communicate?
I’m not sure if I should feel relieved or jealous that Robert and glupson hadn’t mentioned me in that back and forth. Things that make you go hmmm, or maybe I’m just bored in between clients, lol.
I can't speak for glupson, but if a post is made respectfully, even if I totally disagree, I am going to be respectful in return. I may make the odd exception if the post is really really silly, but will at least try to just shake my head and walk away.
The cable that shows the lowest distortion on Tone input
So you say cable can create "distortion"? According to you, cable is basically R/C/L. How can passive R/C/L circuit create distortion? Seems like you contradick yourself lols. I know the answer but I want to see if you do lols.
If there is a difference in distortion and the only thing changed is a cable then the cable contributed to the distortion.
As you said, a cable is basically an R/L/C circuit (your words not mine)? Passive R/L/C circuit do not create distortion - that's electrical 101. If you going to say the distortion is created by the cable, then you have to explain why.
Should we just cut to the chase and assume @andy2 , that you have absolutely no intention, as you stated you would, to provide full measurements on any two cables requested? If that is the case, just try to be a decent and honest person and say that you have no intention of keeping your word and following through. It will save everyone a lot of posts.
If you keep up with this charade of adding more conditions, it only shows that your original challenge was dishonest and not made in good faith. An appropriate noun to describe someone who behaves this way would be a fraud.
That appears to not be happening so I’ll switch to USB cables. I want
the THD+N and Jitter plots from any DAC you choose switching only the
USB cable. If possible do a IMD test and Tone input/ sample rate . Use
any two cables you want. You want an explanation of how I will use these
before you show the measurements. The cable that shows the lowest
distortion on Tone input and THD+N or SINAD and Jitter is the better
cable.
It is always interesting to note that you can go to Wikipedia and read about skin effect and thus inductance issues.... but nowhere does anyone talk about what exactly these things are. just the math. just.. how it appears to work.
nothing about what it is, at all. The whole thing is circular and redundant.
None of that is of any use in discovery work. It’s more for self appointed policemen to use when they have decided that someone must be punished for breaking a ’law’. Exceedingly dogmatic and wholly useless for these discussions.
FYI, all of these discussions in audio about cables are the data points for discovery work. And Wikipedia becomes useless in that moment -Circular and living inside it’s own butt, tossing engineering level papal bulls around like they actually mean something. Jebus.
The longer a question has been in existence, the more fundamental the error in the formulation of the question.
In the first place I never said USB cables create noise. RF noise can leach in through connectors.
Actually you could be/might be/possibly be right about cable creating distortion. The trick is trying to explain it why? What is it in the cable that might create distortion? If cables does create distortion, then you said about cable is no more than just R/L/C circuit is wrong. So that is your contradiction. Either you're right about distortion and wrong about R/L/C - you can't have both.
I was just testing you to see if you know but you so quickly changed your mind which to show that you do not know.
I’m assuming English is your second language so I’m being patient. Noise can leach in through poor connections, connectors, ground problems, wired wrong, the USB hub but the wires themselves just carry the noise. I am assuming you’re going to use good quality cables with sturdy connections. I also assume one cable will be cheap $15 the other expensive >$250. Supposedly you’re going to provide some measurements on these two cables. I’m not going to know which is the cheap cable and which the expensive. From these measurements I’m suppose to try and pick the expensive from the cheap. Is there something I’m missing?
Just to remind everyone, on a consumer level current world is cableless.
Ask any 20-year-old what cables are for. She/he may not have even one in their posession and yet be entirely functional. Many, if not most, have only cable for phone charger. Some not even that.
If you truly want to advance signal transmission, figure out better quality wireless and not novelty cable.
Already done. Harman can predict with 86% accuracy what speaker people will pick in a double blind test based on measurements. The most neutral speaker with the widest and flattest dispersion is preferred. When the low-end is removed from the equation the percentage goes to the high 90's.
It's safe to assume little andy2 can't produce any measurements to back up his claim. Probably because all the measurements he's scoured the internet looking at show no difference between cheap cables and expensive. Keep trying little andy2 you might find some.
My measurements are between my ears. Seems to be able to measure more than what the engineers are able to. I’ve heard with the right amount of chemical imbalance that it can even hear the aliens amongst us.
can an oscilloscope measure accurately a cable that is higher quality than that which is in the oscilloscope? Using critical thinking though you cannot a better signal than the weakest point along the signal path. If you think otherwise you’re brain dead!
can an oscilloscope measure accurately a cable that is higher quality than that which is in the oscilloscope? Using critical thinking though you cannot a better signal than the weakest point anywhere in your system. If you think otherwise you’re brain dead!
So a speaker wire can transmit a higher quality signal than the leads on the oscilloscope and the oscilloscope can measure that? How, quantum entanglement?
is there an instrument that uses higher than instrumentation wiring internally? Some of these speaker wire companies seem to think their cables are better but how would you know?
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