B4, the only thing g that matters? Because you say? The only thing that matters is how it affects the sound, period. Other than the sound, why are we in this hobby. If you hear a difference worth spending the money on, then do it. If you don’t, then don’t. It completely does away with any need for measurements that in the end obviously don’t cover all the bases of why people do hear differences, and for sure isn’t going to tell you if person A is going g to like it, or person B won’t. Any more than you can measure music and tell who will like which. Measurements are good for what they do, but it’s when people try to misapply them that things get wonky. I can’t tell you how many times theories on black holes has changed over the years. And I bet will again. |
Wow, so when measurements fail to prove a point, the fall back is always name calling, because as we all know, that always ends the argument. Lol. |
Not sure why what year is of relevance. We still believe e=mc2 and that was proposed when? |
Apparently there is no longer a need for listening sessions to select equipment. Just follow the yellow brick measurement road. Our hearing is so poor it seems, that I’m not sure why we even bother listening to music to begin with. We can’t be trusted to hear the differences between cables, or so they say. |
I so agree with those statements about the oscilliscope not judging. It’s like someone trying to compare one piece of music to another by the beats per measure, or the range of the notes within the measures. You’re ( the non believers) determining the tests by which I have to measure what I hear, and have become the sole judges of that? I don’t think so. On the other hand, if you chose not to use your ears to dictate your listening preferences, that is your choice and it won’t bother me in the least. |
Glupson, have no idea how they determine what music to suggest for you, but my response is still the same, their suggestions do not equate to the same thing as me liking that content. So therefore, that only proves that measurements, or at least those types, do no equate to what we as individuals hear. |
Oops, looks like it’s time for my tinfoil hat |
D2, all the above, lol. And a couple of guys think it’s about exposing each other somehow. |
Glupson, actually ate a certain point, you reach terminal velocity, after which it’s a moot point. I’m not sure how much pain there actually is after the resultant impact, but it’s not one you’ll repeat. |
The only transmission line effect that matters is the one that terminates at my ear. It in effect becomes the final judge and jury. All the hoopla about trying g to twist numbers to prove any personal bias or views are totally irrelevant. If you don’t have the proper techniques to measure what individuals hear, doesn’t mean it’s not science, just means the proper techniques aren’t being applied, or discovered yet. I’m a physics major and I do believe science determines much of it, though in the end, personal preferences are something of a different matter, but doesn’t mean they don’t exist either |
Obviously something does happen in the cable that is of significance. Way too many people can clearly hear differences, it’s not mass hallucinations. Research theory actually does take things like that into account, and basically means that we have not found the proper way to measure something yet, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist because we have not. Of course it’s tone control, no doubt about that, it so is each and every piece of equipment in the chain, no matter how transparent. Which is why I don’t get why so many are against tone controls built into the preamps, as we obviously do prefer different sounds. But in the case of cables, some not only affect tones, but also background noise levels, stage, depth, etc. so tone alone isn’t the only difference, and of course all that varies greatly between the particular cables, and the particular equipment that they are attached to. Personally I wish I did not hear differences. My audio budget is pretty healthy, it when you then have to think about adding the cost of cables, vibration control devices, ie stands, etc, that match the level of my audio equipment, I can easily double the costs. My budget is healthy, not unlimited. So it would certainly be great for me if I did not hear a difference, and the difference is such that I’ve spent great amounts to upgrade other equipment to achieve that level of difference, so I shouldn’t be willing to do that same for another step up equal to that step? I wish it weren’t true, but I also cannot deny the facts of what I hear. I also believe some people don’t what to hear because of bias, and also I’m willing to ,bet there are those who claim they do, and really don’t. For those that really don’t, it’s a complete waste to spend. As long as the reason you can’t hear is not based on bias, I do not know the reasons why one can’t hear and another hears a great difference, but I’ve also seen someone sitting next to me that loves the way a competent sounds that I really think it’s very blah, and does nothing for me. He is obviously hearing something that I cannot to feel it’s special.ive had this happen with product that I went with the intention of purchasing after reading reviews. Just goes to show, reviews do help, but in the end only you can judge for you. It’s just not possible to hear most equipment first hand, so have to start somewhere
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Robert, I’ve done a number of listening tests myself, and the difference in some cases was indeed not noticeable, while in some cases it was very noticeable. I know enough about how to remove non relevant variables, and create a pure test while changing only one component , or cable. I know what I’ve heard and I know and believe that others have heard this for themselves. I know you can’t say every cable, or with every domination of components, as each components affects each other differently. There is no doubt in my mind that there are audible and noticeable differences. It’s not poor connections, etc. |
I’m not sure if I should feel relieved or jealous that Robert and glupson hadn’t mentioned me in that back and forth. Things that make you go hmmm, or maybe I’m just bored in between clients, lol. |
My measurements are between my ears. Seems to be able to measure more than what the engineers are able to. I’ve heard with the right amount of chemical imbalance that it can even hear the aliens amongst us. |
Pretty much all recorded audio and video of analog or digital types is “sampled”. It’s bits of information, but easiest to show with videos, we all know 60 frames per second for film, and we believe we see motion as we do in real life. It boils down to how much resolution does there need to be before we can no longer see or hear a discernable difference, this is of course simplifying it, but makes the point. This is one place I can agree with Robert, current hi rez can contain more information than Anolog. Vinyl is “ bits” of information, cut into the vinyl. High resolution compared to say mp3 for sure. Cassette and reel to reel is also bits of info. It’s possible maybe for someone to feel analog sounds better, or more musical to them, because hi res might have more detail, assuming they’re able to hear it, and therefore maybe doesn’t seem as sweet or smooth. That has been suggested before.
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Im not young, but I did buy the bw duos and they were so useless at playing anything reliably I returned them, and I never return anything. I bought the KEF LS50ws and they’re better, but need a cable between them and there’s issues with playing music to them also, but it’s doable with some patience. I like technology when it works and it’s easy to use. |
I see the “ stifling” efforts are still in full swing. If anyone would like some real banter come join my game room, lol. No mods there, just a few rules, and bring your best banter. No logic or common sense needed as many there prove every day. Thing is, I didn’t realize people came to this forum for banter. Was hoping this was more of a place where people tried to help each other to further the enjoyment of their hobby. Maybe some people don’t really enjoy this hobby, only come to try to ridicule others. The level of constant bitterness would lead to this being a logical conclusion. |
Glupson, all the gryphon owners I know of match them with high quality, ie fairly expensive, cables.
im sure there might be some who don’t, I’ve just not met them. I suspect that the higher the equipment cost, the more likely you are to also find more expensive cables. |
People were figuring g out ways to make good things long before they knew or understood the science of why it worked well. Trial and error, accidental, or logical thinking. Now we have science to help us explain the why. I think it’s foolhardy to believe we understand everything already, and new discoveries are made constantly that expand our knowledge, or modify what we thought we already knew about a subject. It quite obvious that even people who have problems with the cable subject will agree about different things we here in a sound system, soundstage, clarity, dynamics, etc, and not all of those things have ways to measure them. So they therefore don’t exist? They do, we just don’t have a way of measuring it at this point in time. |
Most things in a system seem to react to each other, in different ways. Some things I don’t detect differences, while others seem to make a bigger impact. |
glupson, when you buy a pair of shoes, don’t you also wear socks with them?
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Trolling? David, Robert, you’ve got more posts than anyone, your tic tic is very fifth grader mentality. Your need to attack everyone even when they have more knowledge than you just makes you look insecure. You don’t seem to understand the purpose and design of blind tests. You Havnt convinced anyone of anything other than you’re just in the forums to troll. Now that, you’ve done a great job of. But as others mentioned, it does seem as if you’ve copy and pasted from another source, and your comprehension of the subject matter does point in that direction. Leave the expertise to the real experts, and just try to have a discussion. I don’t believe you know how to accomplish that though, you seem to need to preach |
Some socks are uncomfortable, they have the ridge inside that just bugs the dickens out of me. Some are too thin and the shoe wobbles, some are too thick and it’s hard to get the shoe on. Some don’t fit well on the leg and slide down to my ankle. So many varieties and choices, some materials feel more comfortable than others, some make my feet sweaty. |
Lol, I’ve seen that done before. |
I saw one brand that was sold with a cord at all, as they assume you will want to use a high end cord with their product |
