What does mist racking actually sound like?

Mist Racking? Sorry, that made me chuckle :-)

Yeah I thought it was a new wet storage technique lol

" What does mist racking actually sound like? "

Kind of a liquid/airy but opaque type of sound.

But seriously, I don't have the foggiest idea.

Darn spell check! I mean mistracking. Sorry for the typo.

Never will I 'submit as-is' again. Sigh......

Don't you mean grooved omage?
But seriously, it's a good question. Inquiring minds want to know.

It depends on how heavy the mist is and how well built the rack is, or something like that!!!!!

And it's all down hill from here . . . :-)

So can anyone please describe what subtle and not so subtle mistracking sounds like? Anyone have audio clips of examples?

The mist is gone and the rack is stacked. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Darn, I thought someone actually came up with some new audio topic that I had not heard of before.

Mistracking usually results in some combination of audible distortion and/or superfluous surface noise as the stylus tracks the record.

For example, I have a Telarc vinyl of the 1812 Overture (dont feel like pulling the disc for info) but this disc is world famous for being untrackable by vast majority of tables. When the cannon blasts hit thats where its impossible to track, the cart goes into spasms and it skips to an extreme degree. This is the most extreme example and is unmistakable when it happens. I figured you deserved an attempt to get this thread on "track" cheers

Philb777,

Finding the "mistracking point" is a critical step in my technique for optimizing VTF and antiskating for a cartridge, so I'm very familiar with it. Raul, Dan_Ed, Swampwalker and anyone else who's watched me adjust my rig is aware that I tend to play just barely above that point.

Imagine a short, sharp burst of upper midrange to HF static, typically lasting MUCH less than a second... a very brief, "bzzzt!" sound.
- It may not be very loud, it depends on how badly the stylus is mistracking.
- It may occur in one channel only or both, depending on why the stylus is mistracking.
- It nearly always occurs in synch with dynamic peaks in the music, since the greater the modulations in the groove the harder they are for the stylus to track.

CAUTION #1
Playing a groove that was previously damaged by a mistracking stylus will sound exactly the same.

CAUTION #2
Certain kinds of vinyl pressing flaws sound almost exactly the same (though often a bit louder). However these are not necessarily in synch with the music and may occur anywhere on a side.

When you hear that "bzzzt!" sound you usually have to do a little investigating to determine which of the above is the actual cause. I've heard all three in my system. Only the first cause, mistracking by one's own stylus, can be rectified. Damage from previous plays or production flaws is incurable.

Also, if the mistracking is only slight it may be necessary to listen with your (better) ear on the tweeter axis to hear it.

Thanks so much for the responses. Doug, you are reading my mind. My XV-1S probably has about 150 hours on it now and I have been currently running it around 2.174 grams. I've been reading you and Thom's posts on the XV-1s, ideal VTF and anti-skate so I'm starting to embark on the ideal VFT/Anti-skate journey. Getting 'mistracking' clarified beyond skipping was important. Its gonna be a fund weekend. Thanks again! I really appreciate these forums and the help they provide so much!

Phil,

Send me a check and it'll be a "fund weekend" indeed. ROFL (at you, not with you of course). ;)

Start your VTF explorations with A/S at zero. VTF should be explored/optimized first. A/S comes later, and only to the extent needed to avoid R channel mistracking AT THE OPTIMAL VTF.

Elizabeth, you are a hoot and make me laugh!

:-)

Oh God, what have I started?! Ha! No, not my VTF/anti-skate explorations, but my darn laziness in spell checking. We've degenerated to racks - the snack tray variety! Yum!

Also, the inner tracks may reveal it more sometimes. I guess it's do to information in the small radius. This happens on linear tracking arms too, so it's not a pivot arm defect. Slight static, hissing sound around the letter "S" sounds on a vocal would be another example of explaining it. Sometimes it is a bad pressing, or the master tape. A good record with a choir might help. It might help float and center the image better, especially using the anti-skate.

In a somewhat strange way I desire for a 10 or 15 rpm platter speed. :-)

I'm off by a factor of 10, make that 1 to 1.5 rpm. Thanks, Doug, for showing me that trick. It is the fastest way to find out if it is damage or not.

Dan/Doug,

Could you elaborate? Are you spinning the platter by hand very slowly and listening for groove damage?

Yes, Peter, exactly so. It's a simple test, another of Paul's simple but brilliant brainstorms...

Find a passage that consistently (sounds like it) mistracks, that "Pffft" or "Bzzzt" sound Hifihvn and I described. Then play it several times at 2-3 rpm, spinning the platter by hand.

You'll hear and easily identify the music as a low frequency growl. The "mistracking" noise, if you still hear it, will sound distinctly different - MUCH sharper transients than any music.

If you hear that at 2rpm then you have groove damage or a pressing flaw, not mistracking. Any cartridge can track anything at 2rpm.

If you only hear it at normal speed then the cartridge is mistracking. VTF and/or anti-skating adjustment will usually (not always) resolve the problem.

P. S. Do NOT go backwards, EVER. No scratching like a DJ with your $4K cartridge. ;)

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I've made several strides today. It's amazing to not realize how much your sound is changing as a cartridge breaks in. Once the XV-1S suspension loosens up, things are now obvious and my sound had to get really shut in before I realized it.

I have now decreased my VTF from 2.174 grams to 1.935 grams. Much more air, more open, much less surface noise. My anti skate has been decreased by at least 70% from what it was set on. It's amazing how excessive anti-skate can affect rhythm and pace. I was floored! Changed my cart load from 400 ohm to 250 ohm. It's a tough one - I like the 50 ohm setting on my Cadence too, but the 250 just has more dynamics. I can easily see if I had a more flexible load settings on a phono-pre how the XV-1s would love its load to be between 100-150 ohms.

Still adjusting azimuth with a Fozgometer but at settings which support ideal azimuth, it sure looks unbalanced by my eyes. To my ears, I really cannot hear a difference between what my eyes say and the Fozgo says. I'll keep playing. Quick question - should I adjust azimuth by ears, eyes and Fozgo with anti-skate engaged at where I think it should be or not engaged at all for azimuth adjustments?

Thanks so much for the advice and suggestions. This has been and will continue to be a great learning experience.

:-)

It's amazing how excessive anti-skate can affect rhythm and pace.

Exactly so, as does excessive VTF. These two mis-adjustments sound very much alike. I know of two theories which purport to explain why. Whichever is correct (and both may be) there's no question about their deadening effects on sonics.

Fine tune azimuth again after you've got VTF and A/S fairly dialed in, with those parameters set where you actually play. The stylus should ALWAYS look vertical, no matter what any instrument says. Anything else could damage your vinyl. I rough in by eye and fine tune strictly by ear but if you're more confident using the Foz it certainly won't hurt. I used to use a similar device until I discovered I could do just as well by listening.

Sounds like you're making great progress!
Doug

Does not sound cool.

Doug thanks again for the advice and everyone else too. I'm learning that setting the Azimuth for me is a dual combo of eyes and Fozgo. Not sure my ears are good enough yet until the retrospective analysis for azimuth whereas VTF and anti-skate are easily heard by my ears early on.

When combining the use of the 3x and 10 x lupe that came with my Mint and getting azimuth set by sight, then fine tuning it in ever so slight increments with the Fozgo has made my soundstage width expand farther than before with better imaging.

When I got my turntable around 18 months ago, I had a buddy of mine set it up. He did a great job but I'm glad I reset things myself this weekend. I learned tons and its very rewarding to get great sound after you have done it yourself so to speak.

My Freshman year of analog is now complete - on to the Soph class!

Mist is like a fog.