Tekton Double Impacts

Bullitt, With the room correction off do you sometimes feel you have an exaggerated low end being too close to the corners with your D.I.'s?

   LP

Should have stated close to the corner , not "too".  Sorry about that. It was drawing a conclusion on my part. 

   LP

LP  : )  Luckily not poker!   

Liked your earlier post. Relevant questions.

evolvist, of course you're welcome to come by. I got the impression you had auditioned the Lyngdorf and didn't like it. But if you want to hear it with the DIs, that's great. I also have absorption panels we can play with in the room if you want to do that. I don't think we could do the ceiling would need some velcro up there :-) is going to happen, but floor/walls would be no problem.

I really liked the Lyngdorf when I had it on audition.The only reason I didn't choose it was because I had bought into the Chord philosophy at the time, but then their business model proved to dig for cash to back up that philosophy. Also, at the time, I was still in between headphone and speaker listening, leaning more to the headphone side of things, and the Chord DAVE has a headphone section that is second to none. Now that I've gotten away from USB, however, I'm not sure if there is any turned back.

That said, for the price/performance the Lyngdorf was at the top of the list. I'm glad to hear that you went that direction.

I just want to let everyone in here know that when Bob says he's getting a great sound with the Lyngdorf, you can trust his ears. Even going to what he had in his old front end, Bob had managed to turn a proper home theater room (and a very nice one, at that), into a fantastic two-channel room, as well.It's not often that I've heard people do both.

Now I'm giddy to hear the magic he has going on in there now.

@david_ten  - I think when people hear the Lyngdorf in their systems, and that well implemented Class D kicks in, the amp section, itself, imparts a slight warmth that sounds very tube-ish, very analog. This is what the Lyngdorf is tuned to. It's also what the D-Sonic Class D amps are tuned to, with rave reviews.  

Think about this. I emailed back and forth with the Lyngdorf, and the designer (I can;t remember his name at the moment) said that he could have implemented Class A/B into the design, with just a little bit larger chassis and heatsink on both sides. It wasn't for aesthetic reasons that he didn't go that route. He went the rout that he did because he was able to tune the gear to capture a more analog sound, as well as he thinks Class D is the future.

He might be right. We're hearing about it all over this thread.

grannyring,
you're awesome. Thanks for sharing this mod with everyone on the A'gon. All the best, mikirob

@lpretiring I don't feel there is too much low end with no correction. But I  was not using correction even before the Lyngdorf in stereo mode. So that wouldn't be a change. The Lyngdorf isn't noticeably changing the level low end when correcting either. My assumption is that it seems to "think" it's pretty close. But we all have our preferred room curve. Corrected or uncorrected the low end is much tighter and well defined now. It seems to control the subs better.
evolvist, thanks for the kind words. I'm pretty sure you'll see a definite improvement when you hear the Lyngdorf vs the old front end. 

@evolvist  Thanks.

@bullitt5094  Are you up for another visitor to check out and hear your setup? If you are I can coordinate around a visit to family in Houston.

Well what do know, I stand corrected. Room corrected that is. This time it's the Double Impacts and a Raven Blackhawk integrated with a Live Dirac PC. Still sounds much better corrected. The comparision will be much more meaningful with the bass traps and panels that are soon to arrive.

I'll follow your lead Bullitt and try the DI's closer to the wall. I'm guessing this is done to clean up the low frequency SBIR and ease the job for wideband room correction.

Hi all - just wanted to FYI that I’m now using Rythmik servo subs with my Impact Monitors with excellent results.  I’ve added pictures to my system page if you want to see them. Thanks.

I have sent 3 emails now to Tekton without a reply.
Does this company answer emails?

ozzy

Ozzy just call Karma they are too busy, I talked to them Thursday last week, I received my speakers Nov 2, just keep calling, Eric does answer email, it depends how busy He is.the latest he answer my email is two days, If you have a question , Teajay might be able to answer it.

When I saw my DI order go out lightning fast, I knew there was a mix up. Called and Eric picked up. Problem solved. We'll see how how the grills go.

 Bill - awesome job, I can almost smell the solder.

jayctoy,

Thanks for the reply.
The 3 emails that I sent have been over the last 2 weeks. So, it looks like I won’t be getting a reply. I hate it when companies cannot perform the simplest courtesy of replying to an email. 
Makes me wonder if the lack of response is indicative of how they handle customers problems.
But, I will try to call next week.

ozzy

Took care of my shipping damaged driver issue the same day I received my pair, but I did use a phone. 

If iam in your place Ozzy I will not stop, until I get one of their speakers, I almost did not order because of Audiozen thread, I finally realize the issue are minors, when I heard the Impact monitor , I forgot I read Audiozen thread...they are that good....with your system Tekton more likely you will get good result....I felt bless when I heard them, I spend too much time listening now...I only have 20 hrs on them...

ozzy,
Eric answers until about 12:00 or 1:00, Karma covers the 12:00 + and the rest of the day. They will take your order but if you wish to speak to Eric try mornings. He seems like a great guy to me. Had a couple of conversations with him and he really is enthusiastic about his work. I ordered the standard low gloss black and had them in 4 days. Speaker grills? Tuesday, in two days, 60 days from when I received my speakers. Since I am a self employed craftsman I absolutely understand Eric’s position.
Greg

@david_ten Certainly I would welcome a visit. It would be best to communicate by Email. Could you PM me an email address?

Can anybody tell me what the upgrades are on the DI SE? Specifically?
Greg

@bullitt5094  PM sent. Thanks.

Karma is here full-time to help everyone!

Call us between 8:30am-4:30pm Monday-Friday. 

Eric Alexander - audio designer 


 

Hi bullitt5094 - you mentioned the following:

"the transducer centers are a 1.5ft from the side walls and 2.5ft from the rear wall."

Since the DI speakers are 12" wide and ~18" deep, going from the transducer centers that would mean you have a about a foot to the side walls from speaker edge and a foot to the front wall (wall behind speakers and in front of the listener) from the back of the speaker.  

If this is right, essentially, the speakers would be corner loaded.  In such a setup I believe that you preferred a class D amp over a tube amp.

Thanks for sharing!
Mike
Audio Archon - Tekton dealer

I just can’t justify the cost or quantify the measureable improvements of using uber expensive capacitor replacements in the DI’s crossover over any affordable tweeter’s gross distortion which would swamp any improvement by orders of magnitude.

I too have found that calling on the phone works better than email. I have  found that smoke signals and carrier pidgeons are also problematic.

@ grannyring...here, this is what you need to find the inductance values of the inductors. This is much less than the cost of ONE mundorf capacitor.  http://www.ebay.com/bhp/inductance-meter

@ grannyring Would you be considering the goertz foil type inductors?

Hi jacarcopo,
I can’t speak specifically about crossover modification in the Double Impacts but I do trust Bill’s (Grannyring) listening impressions and judgement. I can tell you that in my speakers replacing the stock Solen tweeter capacitor with the Duelund CAST copper foil was a very noticeable and worthwhile upgrade. Those tweeter caps do matter.

The sound quality with the Solen was very good I’ll admit. However with the Duelund CAST the sound elevated to truly superb level.
Charles

@charles1dad 
would that be the hybrid silver copper cap?
not sure exactly which one you used.
greg

@charles1dad 
possibly the PIO copper in foil CAST?
greg

@fetguy I looked at units like these, but I am not sure they are as accurate as I would like? I know a guy with the best testing/measurement gear and expert at driver and speaker design. I will use him. Thanks for the link however!


@jcarcopo. Sorry you feel this way. The improvement was not slight, but transformative for me. Cost me far less than the SE version and I am confident they at least compete with the SE. Most confident. Also, think about it this way. If you hold to your thought, then the amp or preamp,  or source, or anything in front of the drivers really would not matter or be worth upgrading. We know this is not true of the DI speaker. 

These parts can be heard through the DI.

I would not use a foil coil 😁on the DI array as they tend to be a tad more bright and brilliant.  To my ear this would not be a good recipe for the DI. Actually the Solen Perfect Lay coils would be a wonderful choice. 

@  grannyring that was my taked on foil inductors too. I had to  zobel it to deal with its internal capacitance. Easiest, of course, to just buy a less expensive coil that does not do that. Live and learn.

@ charles1dad It's been my personal experience that solen tend to sound "misty" and just plain off to me compared to other good, cost effective, film caps. I don't like using them. A guy that worked in the capacitor building business once told me what was going on, but I have long since forgotten what the explanation was. Old age is a bitch.

Hi Greg,
I have the Duelund CAST copper foil PIO capacitor. Fantastic for speaker crossovers and worth every penny. 
Charles 

@grannyring 
Interesting, the comment was removed!

@grannyring
I think your comment opens the door to so many questions and for sure they really should be asked. Which speaker DID Terry review? what was the XO design and why has it changed since then? How does one really know what they are purchasing from TD if the design and parts keep changing. Were Terry’s DI’s and improved version that others do not have? Is Eric at TD still changing his design for the better or looking for cheaper ways to accomplish the same thing? Is this a bait and switch scheme? I am not a speaker designer, nor an EE, but I would like to see consistency in this product. How will this affect the resale? Which speaker config do I have? Maybe Eric @tektondesign would like to comment to prevent further speculation?
Greg

Thanks Greg. Cost has nothing to do with these changes. These changes are for the net Sonic result only. Here is what I have found on the DI speaker. 

I have debated in my mind if I should share this next point. I do not want to cause the builder any problems as I have spoken to him once and he seems like a passionate fellow audiophile. However, I feel it must be shared as this community continues to share experiences with the DI speaker. The fact is we are hearing different versions of this speaker. No way we can share our evaluations of the same speaker. Fact is we are hearing different versions as I will unpack shortly. There are pretty diverse crossover designs and crossover points in owners speakers. Which one do you have? Which one was reviewed by Terry and others? Don’t know. But I do know they will most certainly sound different.

I know the first set I heard had an obvious emphasis in the upper mids/highs and presence area. I commented on this in this thread. The second pair I heard, and now own, did not display this personality. Actually, my set seemed more balanced top to bottom. Was it the gear? The room? Well, these always plays a role, but this difference seemed to me to be beyond that.

I have had the opportunity to see what is inside of three different DI speakers and can tell you the XO design differs substantially in each one. The bass crossover is constant and I am referring only to the mids and highs - the upper portion of the speaker. My speaker was built in August and I have shared diagram of the highs/mid board already. The other two speakers are a couple of months older.

I wont share the specifics so as to bore you or get lost in the weeds, but will share enough to make the point. The capacitor value on the 6.5 inch mids varies over 100% speaker to speaker with the same value inductor in each set. Yes this means those drivers are playing differing frequencies. The cap values on the center tweeter and outer ring of 6 tweeters varies over 100% set to set. The number of inductors and resistor values differ from set to set on the tweeter array. The wiring scheme of the array also differs in the three sets. The bottom line is the various speaker arrays will sound different.

I understand fine tuning a design over time, but this seems beyond that? You decide for yourself on that point. My points are these;

1) Understand when someone says they feel the speaker is a tad thin sounding or a tad too brilliant and immediate, they may be hearing a slightly different design. Whatever comments are being made are reflective of that generation of DI. I am not sure what base is for this speaker.

2) I would like to know what the builder has settled on now. Can we expect more changes beyond some tiny adjustments. The differences I saw are not tiny.

Wiithout being flippant I am asking for the real DI speaker to stand up. Some ears will hear these differences as glaring while others will find them slight. I am sure they all sound good and don’t question that. However, we do need to know our DIs differ and some of our evaluations and comments may be born out of these differences.

I understand that the net result of these varying Crossover designs can still deliver similar, not identical, sound. I am sure the builder aims for that. However, I am also sure they do deliver sonic differences as why else would the builder keep tweaking if not for fine tuning and improvement.

@greg22lz I am noticing more and more that the mods are very heavy handed with regards to removing posts. Where can I find the terms of service and what is considered a violation? Seems like the decisions are very arbitrary. 

@audionoobie.   I removed my own post, not Agon. I find Agon does a nice job of balancing and managing posts they deem inappropriate.  

@grannyring Good to know. Thanks!

@grannyring 
I would have second thoughts about posting as well but the fact is these are great speakers AND there are anomalies that WE, the consumer, are trying to understand. In addition, and this is kind of big, these speakers are being recommended by Agon members as something special and yet we seem to have different versions of the seemingly same product and I find that disconcerting. I guess it is then fair to compare notes to see how the XO's, as well as wiring diagrams, differ from speaker to speaker. 

I suppose the builder has every right to do what he wants and to not share. It is certainly reasonable not to. It is his speaker and his design. I am OK with that actually. Not sure I would want to give up my secret sauce.

However, my post is to bring to light the fact that not all our DIs sound identical . They don’t. We need to keep that in mind when reading comments. Perhaps the design has now settled down and all sets are pretty much the same. I personally think these sorts of changes should have been sorted out prior to introduction. “Fine” tuning slightly after intro is fine and common.

The basic $3000 DI is 4 ohms. What are the downsides of a 4 ohm speaker?
To purchase an 8 ohm DI is an additional ~$450. Why so much more?
Why so many variations of the DI? Kind of makes resale very tricky. Not being able to hear the DI's live puts resale (or return)  squarely on the table.
How does the DI compare to the Klipsch RF7 II or the B&W 683?
Is there any legitimate competition in this price range?
I am trying to read quickly through the 70+ pages of responses so bear with me if these questions are in any way redundant.

@grannyring I jus spoke with a friend of mine who has worked on Bozac speakers for years and Bozac has a tweeter array as well. He said Bozac changed the inductors and capacitors as well as wiring sequence for years so I guess it is a common thing!

For years, over years yes. But this much change in the initial intro months? Oh my. The builder has a passion to improve and refine so if substantial monthly changes are common without MK status changes, then we know it and refer to our DIs with birthday dates😊

Understood. These changes have nothing to do with price points, cap brands, or upgraded parts like wire and binding posts. Not a question of these things at all. Simply crossover design and wild differences in just a period on months. 1.5uf cap in series with the center tweet vs a cap more than 4x that value! 100uf cap in series with mid drivers vs. 220uf with same value inductor. Additional inductor on some outer tweets not found in other DI sets. All these things CHANGE the sound. Many, many more I won’t mention. Even wiring mids and woofers out of phase on some sets and not others. Trust me I can go on and on. Nothing here to do with price points. Just sharing our DI speakers sound different based on birthdate.  Mine are 08/17 DIs.  

@grannyring - Ok, got it. If I had known that was going on I may not have purchased these speakers. That's why you pointing this out is so important.

I think I would assume the TD continually strives for excellence in his products!