Tekton Double Impacts

:-)

audioman,

not sure if I'm following you entirely on your Maggie digression.  If you go back to the first post of this thread I had the 1.7's coupled to REL subs.  Nice for sure, but I sold them and kept the DI's.  Better detail, speed, imaging, sound stage.  All this with inexpensive drivers and economy crossover parts with their attendant higher levels of distortion.  Honestly, I gave up placing much stock in numbers some time ago.  Rarely do they predict how a product will sound.

Corelli, 
Well said and so true.  Obviously borne of wisdom gained by the listening  experience. 
Charles 

And also wanted to say, this is a hell of a site.  Tons of excellent advice and mostly informative posts!   

Really? I tried the ML Electromotion ESL's and they sounded almost dead compared to the DI's. The difference in sound quality was massive. I listen to 60's/70's/80's classic rock and a lot of Classical with some Jazz mixed in.

I wonder if it is the listening room or equipment synergy.

Hi hfaddict, You’ve got to trust what you hear 😊. That’s an intriguing combination, panel speaker driven by a 50 watt SET amplifier.
Continued blissful listening to you.
Charles

Hi Porscheracer,
Could simply be an example of a very synergistic speaker and amplifier match. Sometimes you just find or stumble across the ideal match. It can truly be trial and error. 
Charles 

@porscheracer @charles1dad Trust me. I know how out of touch this must sound. Even my wife who has helped me A/B speakers, music streams and DACS much preferred the ML’s. The ML’s are just so musical on the 508 and warm up crappy recordings and give me all the low end I could ask for on classic rock which is where I felt the DI’s weren’t working for me.

I tried the DI’s as far as 3 Ft away from the front walls (as far as I’d visibly want them). I ran them from 6-12ft apart and zero to full toe in and everything in between. I even tightened up the front spikes all the way in and the rear spikes all the way up to try to achieve my desired soundstage/bass quality. I also checked the tightness on the drivers first things first. No dice.

Now to further make myself sound like I’m sniffing glue... The DI’s have a tighter, slightly sharper center image but this is where it gets crazy. The ML’s center image in my set up created more depth/3d sound. Very holographic. Now this could be due to the bipolar nature of the panels and having untreated walls. Maybe reflections are slightly smearing the soundstage and giving me more the holographic effect. Either way the center image is still tight for my tastes.

The DI’s dynamics blow the ML’s out of the water but...the ML’s are more enveloping to me.

I realize I’m trading all out accuracy and resolution for the more euphoric effects of the panels in my room but that’s where my ears are taking me. My hopes with the Ethos or higher series is I will get even more of this same goodness with the added benefit of adjustable subs built in.

One more clarification, on good recordings, the DI's will easily blow the ML's out of the water for all out bass quality, depth and feel. It's not a question of all out bass but more a desire for everything to sound good at all times, maybe even at the expense of all out resolution/clarity. 

And I do realize the contradiction of running a SET amp on panels but the 508 has a lot of grunt and plays the low end quite well.

So that’s my crazy adventure thus far...

And if it helps my last few amp/speaker set ups have been Naim Nait 5si (much enjoyed), Primaluna Prologue One with KT 120's (loved this amp), Spatial Audio M3 TS and Totem Element Embers. Just a bit of background info. 

Panels are a lot more forgiving to a room, yeah?  At least that's what I heard, so I don't really know. 

@james_w514 That probably about sums it up for me. I know you've had a lot of experience with panels. And also with the DI's with lots of quality upstream gear auditions. 

To each their own. I'm sure I could've gone the solid state route and been satisfied but I just got a thing for these damn tubes. Lol. 

Funny thing about this experience is I've had the ML's in my dedicated, sound treated HT room for over 4 years. My new house doesn't have enough space for an HT room. So I sold all my HT gear and wasn't even going to try the ML's on the 508 until a few friends that were over talked me into it. (the ML's haven't been picked up yet by another friend) 

So it all actually happened by chance. 

@stfoth - "Probably going to go with monitors.......looks like the monitors use different tweeters and have different specs from the Double-Impact surround speakers. Curious whether anyone has considered the differences or considered the surrounds as main monitors with tubes."

Good question! I own the Impact Monitors but didn’t consider the DI surrounds. Looks like they have a higher sensitivity. That may be helpful if you want to run lower powered amps. I can tell you the Impact Monitors have been getting rave "first impression" reviews from RMAF. (Go to the Impact Monitor thread to see my compilation of the reviews https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tekton-impact-monitors/post?postid=1470434#1470434) I use a REL powered sub with mine and am very satisfied with the lower mids and bass. At their price, the Impact Monitors are very hard to beat.

Hi all. I am not 100% sure this is the place for this question. 

I have a somewhat difficult room in that it is a shared living room with less than ideal conditions and my speakers need to be placed rather close to the back and side wall. 

I have been searching and searching and searching for speakers. I love what I read about the DI and DI SE and wondering if these are worth looking in to further with my constraints. I wish I could preview them and listen to them, but since I can not. It seems like I need some advice from a much more expert knowledgable source. 

Thanks all!

I like ml like I like my incoherence, I don’t. Their panels never mate to their subs properly and it calls attention to itself.

ccc,
several months back several DI owners placed there speakers very close to the front wall just to evaluate how much this would compromise the sound.  I was surprised to read how well they did with that placement.

@ccc8282 

People on this thread have consistently recommended giving the DI's "room to breathe" by allowing several feet from the front and sidewalls to achieve optimal sound. Since that is not an option for you, I would recommend auditioning the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170, primarily for its room correction. When using that system, part of the set up advises you to move the speakers within a few inches from the front wall. It's my belief that you could achieve optimal, uncompromised sound despite your limitations. As another bonus, the magic of this unit to achieve this optimal sound: Use it to replace your DAC, preamp and power amp as well. 

Hey Everybody,

Now that my review on Elfberht's has been posted I want to share some information on my experience with amplifiers driving them, along with the DI/DI SE's.

1)  My favorite combo (s) on the DI/DI SE's are the LTA Micro-ZOTL / Triode Lab SET 2A3, retails for $3,900.00 and LTA Micro-ZOTL/ AricAudio SET KT-88, retails for $2,100.00.  The 2A3 amplifier gives you a touch, and I do mean just a touch, more warmth and "meat on the bones" in the mid-range then the SET KT-88, which still has just a beautiful tonality in this very important frequency range, but Aric's SET KT-88 bests it in overall macro-dynamics and bass extension/control.  If you only listen to acoustic music you will be thrilled with the 2A3 amplifier; however, if you listen to all kinds of music (rock, blues, heavy metal, big music pieces) along with acoustic jazz then I would recommend the SET KT-88 amplifier.

2)  When I took the ZOTL/2A3 combo to power the Ulf's I still loved the tonality/colors, and image density. However there was a problem with the spatial dimensions regarding that the music seemed to be coming from just in front of speakers and lacking depth/width.  The Ulf's did not do the magical disappearing act like its smaller siblings easily do.  However, when I put the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier in the system I still got the great purity of tonality, 3D imaging of a SET design and then these big son of a gun speakers vanished in to a giant realistic layered sound-stage like a small reference level two way monitor does!

3)  The only other SET amplifier that I auditioned that produced about the same level of performance across the board as Aric's SET KT-88 was a pair of SET 300b mono-blocks that retail for $9,000.00.  To tube this amplifier "the right way" to get to this level of performance with NOS tubes, which I have in my own personal collection, would about another $1,500.00 for the pair.  In Aric's amplifier to get great performance a pair of NOS RCA black plate triple mica 5751's, along with a pair of JJ Blue glass KT-88's comes out to about $200.00.   

AS I stated on this thread already we have another Aric who goes on my short list of creative designers building high quality, great performing gear at such reasonable prices.    
 

@teajay , you will need to review some more gear soon. I stopped in at Linear Tube Audio today and saw some cool stuff coming. The new ZOTL10 MK2 is already on the web site and it is a completely different animal from the first version, with a Linear power supply and other changes Mark has made makes it sound like the MZ2 alone but with 10 watts.

Also the integrated 10watt amp is almost ready but the most interesting thing I saw was a prototype of a full size and function cost no object preamp. I always have fun when I stop in there especially when I’m supposed to be working.

Wow, no matter how many times I call and ask for the grills I paid for from Tekton I can't seem to get them! WTF?

Just say you don't sell them and return the Money?

Teajay.....what about the Sophia 91-01 300B mono blocks?

Wow, no matter how many times I call and ask for the grills I paid for from Tekton I can't seem to get them! WTF?

Yeah, I don't know what's up with that. People have been complaining about the grills for some time. Moreover, most have ended up getting their grills, but only after a prolonged period.

I mean, what are they actually telling you on the phone when you ask about the grills?

I think Home Depot has a End of Summer Sale on some grills if Tekton cant provide them. :P

Lula,
Based on both professional reviews and owners word of mouth the Sophia 300b SET has exceptionally good sound quality.  I'd think that they'd be a fine match. 
Charles 

Charles,
I agree, but I addressed the question to Terry because he lists the Sophias as part of his arsenal of amps in his latest review.

10

If anyone is looking for a complete set of four 6.5 midrange drivers and four 10 inch woofer drivers as a replacement/back-up sets for their DIs just contact me. The Tekton DI original custom drivers only 50 or so days old and as new. Have boxes and packing for them. 

 Anyone in Vegas area own these,  n can demo?  I basically refuse any manufacturer telling me to "just buy them!"("..sight unheard!!" ) ZERO PERCENT CHANCE of that scenario happening! Like CHHAA NO!!!  Been around block way to many years to take the bait on that cheese!  Lol. 
Anyway,  yes, id like to hear these first n make my own assessments before considering ANY trigger pulling!(oops!  My bad!  ..too soon!??!!😲😞)
Anyone in Vegas ,Cali, AZ vicinity that are open, perhaps we can swap favors er what have you. Im open. Thx

@grannyring

Are you getting rid of the NOS Dayton Tweeter Cap as well?

Tekton Design Double Impact SE 

Info is now on the Tekton website

http://www.tektondesign.com/double-impact-se.html

@teajay 

I want to share some information on my experience with amplifiers driving them, along with the DI/DI SE's...............

Very helpful post.

Thanks for the highlighting the nuanced differences between the preamp and amp combinations with for the Double Impacts, the DI-SEs, and Ulfberths; your preferences and findings; and also the cost of tubes selected.

Anyone in Vegas ,Cali, AZ vicinity that are open, perhaps we can swap favors er what have you. Im open. Thx

Well, from Las Vegas to Orem, Utah, where Tekton speakers are made is 5.5 hours. That’s really nothing. That’s like driving from Houston to New Orleans, only without the hangover.

There is a pair of Takatsuki TA-300 300B tubes for sale for $1699 vs their normally ridiculous retail price of $2499, but I can't seem to rationalize that price even if it's 33% off retail. Anyone heard them and think they're better than EML 300B at double the money or the Elrog 300B at $500 more? Somebody talk me out of this... Please!

Jcarcopo,
I was an early buyer of the Takatsuki when they became available and bought mine directly from Japan. This was about 5 years ago and I payed about 1850.00 USD. I’ve heard 11 different 300b tubes in my amplifier (some bought and others loaned from generous audiogon members).

The very best sounding in my system in alphabetical order
AAVT 32B
Elrog 300b
EML XLS
KR XLS 300b
Sophia Electric Royal Princess
Takatsuki

The very best was the Elrog (but proved to be unreliable). Just a "small"step behind were the Takatsuki and EML XLS. Each is truly excellent in my opinion but have different characters.

I have come to develop a slight preference  for the EML XLS. Others who’ve tried both may prefer the Takatsuki and I understand this. Both are wonderful and I believe that the choice could very well be amplifier/circuit dependent as well as listener preference.

Jcarcopo, the EML XLS is my first choice. I haven’t heard the standard version EML 300b but I been told that it’s a very good sounding tube.
Charles

@charles1dad thanks, I'm very happy with my elrogs and EML 300bxls. I'm saving my money and passing on these then.  BTW the elrogs so far haven't presented any issues, but I've only had them a few months.   

Hi Jcarcopo, 
I had my Elrogs replaced twice under warranty.  I had the early version of this tube and apparently my amplifier ran them too  hard.  Your Art Audio amplifier could be a better match. The company has new ownership and reportedly has solved the problem with these tubes.  I'm hesitant to step back in and besides I'm just very happy with the EML XLS which is very stout and a wonderful fit with my amplifier. In my opinion you currently have two superb sounding tubes.  I hope the Elrog proves reliable for you. 
Charles

Hi!
I know and understand that we need to keep proving that our new ER300B solved the reliability issues of the past. I am happy to report that so far the failure rate of the improved 300B is close to zero since 15 months. So far only a single 300B tube failed in the field.
Best regards
Thomas

Perfect timing as I just commissioned Aric to build me a " no holds barred" 300B SET. The KT 120 amp of his is VERY good but I'm going all out with this custom 300B build in hopes of finally obtaining my forever amp. I'll be going with the EML 300B XLS tubes with NOS 6SN7's and 5U4's. I believe this will be the perfect amp for the DI SE's......or at least close enough for me. 

@charles1dad - Thanks, I like them both very much, I find it hard to determine which is better, but I believe the EML is tad more neutral and possibly a hair more dynamic and powerful sounding.  The elrog has a finesse about inner detail possibly or I'm just drinking my own kool-aid because they cost more. One thing is for certain, I prefer the pretty glow from the elrog to EML 300bxls and that's worth something right?   

@mac48025 - get the elrog they glow prettier then the EML, nuff said..😂 

@mac48025  Tom, will you be keeping the KT88?  Why not the 2A3?

Lol Jcarcopo, I hate to admit it but I sure love some good tube glow.....especially the pics I see of tube glow enhanced with blue LED's. Eye candy is good too!

Not sure what I'll do with the KT88, David. Might keep it for a back up. Might sell it. Might give it to my son. It really sounds good and I'm probably crazy for trying something else but after hearing Charles' Frankensteins in my room I just can't get that sound out of my head. The kt88 comes close but I'm not playing horse shoes :) After talking with Aric and others I decided the 300B is the way I wanted to go. The 2A3 might be a better option but I really liked the full, dynamic sound that both the KT 88 and the Frankensteins provide. I'm not sure if the 2A3 would provide that or not and while the 300B only provides a little more than 3 db more headroom, it just might be the additional oomph I need. I was very close to going with a 2A3 build but it's all Charles' fault that I'm going the 300B route 😆🎼🔉

Jcarcopo,
You summed up very well the essential characteristics of the Elrog and the EML. The only Elrog and Takatsuki have a "bit " more inner detail and "slightly" more of an organic nature.  The EML XLS  is nearly as organic but offers a bit more dynamic presentation,  authority  and boldness. To be truthful all 3 are just really excellent 300b tubes.   I can recommend these top tier tubes without reservation.  I'm glad to hear the Elrog has improved its reliability. 
Charles 

@mac48025 Tom, no disrespect of Aric’s amps meant by this question...but why not the Frankenstein? Or is it too close to Halloween for your comfort?

I was very close to going with a 2A3 build but it's all Charles' fault that I'm going the 300B route

Stylistically, what is the range of music that you listen to?

@mac48025 - Here is my 2 cents (1.5 cents is probably more accurate). You obviously got a taste for what’s possible with that tube when you heard Charles’ Frankensteins. Back in my Shindo days my next step in amps would have been his 300B monos. I heard them with a pair of DeVore Silverback speakers and was dumbstruck. During that listening session we replaced the Shindo amps with a different pair of very highly respected/costly 300B monos and the magic went away. It's not so much the tube but the design and build. So if Aric recommended the 300B and he knocks it out-of-the-park that will be REALLY good news for everybody. Can’t wait to hear how it turns out!

A few reasons David. One, while the Frankensteins are superb I have total faith in Aric to design and build an amp that will bring about the same musical bliss. Two, simple finances. I've been spending too much on audio lately and at $3600 Aric's premium build should provide the level of sonics I'm after at a price I can afford. Three, I have an established business relationship with Aric and admire his knowledge, honesty, talent and integrity. Lastly......Halloween is a scary time of year for Frankensteins :)

evolvist, I'm all over the map with musical preferences......jazz, blues, folk, country, world music and getting into classical....but acoustic live music is my fav. 

Sbayne, I think Aric will do just that and I'll certainly let everyone know about Aric's 300B amp as soon as I get it....well, after it burns in.