yes, have experimented with these. Pretty good tubes. Sophia electric was the first of the high end custom materials Chinese tubes. The work from PSVANE and Shuguang now surpasses them.
If you want to try KT88s the ones to get are the WEKT88 red base. best KT88 out there right now. To really hear the difference on different output tubes though, first you need to replace those factory coupling caps used by PL. Put some copper foils from Jupiter or Jensen in the amp before you try swapping tubes and you'll really hear what the difference in tubes can offer.
If you like the EL34 sound the other tube set to try is the PSVANE EL34-UK...really musical sounding tubes. but PSVANE makes several versions of EL34, so you will have to shop for the UK version.
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Have you considered TungSol 7581A? I'm enjoying them in my PL Integrated and not crazy expensive.
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@whacky,
re: "I once tried a full battery of KT150 but sold them", "...not EL34 magic."
A few things to note fwiw. If the PL DP does not have the appropriate plate voltage or transformers to drive KT150s properly, it won’t sound right nor will it have the EL34 magic. Truly takes the right amp(s) and transformers to get the most out of KT150s, IME. Found this to be the case with multiple KT88 based amps.
In addition to PSVANE CV181-T, Shuguang or WEKT88, TS 7581As, and others mentioned, have you also looked into Genelex Gold Lyon KT77s? As I recall Jim McShane of McShane Design is a big fan of them too.
Noted a few others who prefer the KT77s over many of the re-issue KT88s (excluding high $ EAT KT88s), IF you like the EL34 type of "tone" but want a bit more sparkle too between EL34 and generic KT88s, may be worth it to looking into KT77s too along with other great tubes mentioned earlier. |
Wow
these are all awesome recommendations and definitely something I will look into.
I was hesitant to spent the money on the SE tubes. Definitely had a few people recommend them highly after personal experience. But I love these other ideas as well.
@johnss
how hard is to replace the coupling caps? I’ll look into they tonight. What’s the theory behind doing they? What do the coupling caps really do?
Otherwise I’ll be checking out all those other tubes. The KT77. Tone plus sparkle sounds pretty nice to me.
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@decooney,
Prima Luna recommends the KT150 tubes and they are safe to use in all the Prima Luna amps. They do not come standard due to the $100.00 price per tube. |
Gold Lion KT77s are great tubes. Very detailed and dynamic top to bottom. Only shortcoming I experienced was in the mid bass department; a little lean for my taste. However they are really good tubes
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I had good luck with shuguang EL34 tubes in a Rogue Cronus Mafgnum, much more refined than the KT120's that the amp came with. I hear the Gold Lion power tubes are good too, I use 6 of their signal tubes in my preamp. |
The gold lion Kt77 aren't terribly expensive at around $50. Definitely sparking my interest given how they are being described.
The SE EL34 tubes are 3x as expensive for their top offering @ $150 a piece. Yikes. $1200 to roll some tubes is more than I can swallow presently.
Now I'm curious about the capacitor swap at this point. It seems like that could also be a method to unlock potential hidden in the already solid PL amp. |
I love the KT77's too they've been my go to EL34 variant for years now. I may be misremembering but I feel like I suggested the KT77 in a PL thread once and someone said PL amps can't use the KT77? I may be misremembering I'll try and find that thread if I can.
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I looked and can't find the thread I was thinking of but did see a thread where Kevin Deal chimed in and said KT77's are fine so there you go. Give them a try I doubt you'll be disappointed!
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replacing the caps is pretty straight forward if you know how to solder. but dont use a 9 dollar iron, get something better.
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Funny you mention that. about a week ago I tried to used my older 15 dollar iron to resize a power strip for my cordless tool charging station...first time trying to solder something in the past year.
Absolute garbage piece of crap.
So I finally did what I’ve been meaning to do for awhile.
Spent some cash and got a nice Hakko FX-951 kit.
Going to practice up a little bit before attempting anything official on the PL.
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@stereo5 07-29-2020 11:20am
decooney, Prima Luna recommends the KT150 tubes and they are safe to use in all the Prima Luna amps. They do not come standard due to the $100.00 price per tube. Look here. Reads "Premium"only, and not all models. See the PrimaLuna-usa site. https://www.primaluna-usa.com/tube-rolling-legacyThe other matter is some brand amps will run KT150s, and yes its safe for some, and yet the transformers, power supply, and plate voltage may not always be designed or upsized to drive KT150 tubes properly. In reverse, my current KT150 amps with much larger transformers and more plate voltage with manual bias cannot run KT88s or EL34s, it will burn them up prematurely. Best to always check with the amp designer. |
@whacky
+1
Agon member @johnss mentioned one other tube above that I heard a year ago in a tube replacement situation on a friend's amp. As it turned out he was running the wrong spec tubes for the amp, TS KT150s, actually. Great tube, wrong amp for them.
Went back to KT88s. The repair person, ex-dealer, chose a well-matched quad of PSVANE KT88 tubes for the replacement. We heard the before and after results. It was a notable difference. The right tube for the amp, or maybe lucky synergy. Still running after a year so far. Maybe another one to add to your research list, fwiw.
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@whacky
+1
Agon member @johnss mentioned one other tube above that I heard a year ago in a tube replacement situation on a friend’s amp. As it turned out he was running the wrong spec tubes for the amp, TS KT150s, actually. Great tube, wrong amp for them.
Went back to KT88s. The repair person, ex-dealer, chose a well-matched quad of PSVANE KT88 tubes for the replacement. We heard the before and after results. It was a notable difference. The right tube for the amp, or maybe lucky synergy. Still running after a year so far. Maybe one to be sure to add to your research list. They did sound more musical than any of my former EH, GL, JJ KT88s I heard prior, fwiw.
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Well I think I will probably end up trying the Kt77 first before anything else.
Yes, suddenly I'm interested in upgrading the capacitors in the PL.
Yes, suddenly I've been considering swapping into an alternative higher priced amp after considering the cost of new tubes and new capacitors with the value of the amp.
Most likely i will go the route of the Kt77 and see how I like it.
Currently auditioning a pair of PS Audio M700 monoblocks and I have to say I am enjoying their sound, albeit not very tube like.
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@whacky
While I have not personally tried the Genelex Gold Lyon KT77 in any or my prior amps, I too would try them if my current KT150 based amps could support it. They will not. I first heard about the KT77s from Jim McShane years ago after sharing I was a big EL34 fan and wanted something between my EL34s and KT88s, thus KT77s. In the future, I may buy or commission a custom build for a 2nd amp down the road just to try KT77s too. Keep us posted on your progress if you go with them.Thanks. |
All,
just a short note and update.
over the past 8-12 months have recommended the Shuguang WE KT88 plus to many.
thought I would provide a short update.
bought one quad set in Oct. 2019 bought a 2nd quad set in late Dec 2019 or early Jan 2020.
Lost one WEKT88 a few weeks ago from first quad.
Was playing some prestige jazz recordings last night and lost another red base KT88 while listening.
have to say; still best sounding KT88 have found, bar none.
But
out of the 1st quad set, 2 have died, and now using the 2nd quad set
as spares for the first quad. At 350 USD per quad, not a great result.
Shuguang
and those sellers who market these WE tubes are selling at a super
premium over their other Chinese tubes as well as the Russian
competitors.
So they should last a bit longer than 9-12 months before giving up the ghost in an amp that is pretty easy on toobes.
Have
to say, while still the best sounding KT88 I have heard, their quality
and reliability reminds me of the chinese made crap tubes of 10 years
ago, where you had to say a little prayer each time
before hitting the power switch on the amp, otherwise the tubes would
super nova on you, or in simpler words, garbage tubes.
Have had better luck with the Shuguang Nature sound treasure KT88-T. But also another pricey tube.....
May need to return to PSVANE or some of the Russian options....
Have had really good long term reliability with all the Russian made KT88s.
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@johnss
Thanks for that update Johnss. It’s helpful, as we kinda know many of us are trying, using, and always on the lookout for a few of the good ones to buy and keep spares of. I’ve concluded these really do become throw-away tubes with no warranty or replacement option in most cases (at the lower prices). However, at a premium price, and unless of course you buy through some intermediary outfit in the US you pay an up-charge for to gain some added coverage in year-1, or maybe not. I’ve not found a great benefit there yet, but keep searching there too.
I did something similar as you are doing with the Shuguang WE tubes with my input and driver tubes on my 6SN7 preamp. While I’ve stashed away my vintage 6SN7s, I bought two overseas N7s, then a quad, and a second spare quad after I found something I liked a lot. Unfortunately this particular overseas boutique company’s founder/owner/designer passed on and the Co. has since changed their lineup some and its no longer clear what the future holds. He was a small mfg selling and relabeling to the big outfits overseas. Part of his tooling and lineup was partially bought up by PSVANE, were told. Like you, hoping the spares hold up for a while. Not so easy to go back the more generic well known tubes that last longer but just sound "okay".
Once I noted Peter of AudioNote was now sourcing tubes from PSVANE for his lineup, it became clear we are seeing another evolution stage of these new tubes out there. Hopefully it continues to evolve and maybe quality will improve better than cheap throwaway light bulbs. I’m trying all PSVANE in my amps now for input and drivers. They sound pretty nice so far, but how long will the last, hopefully longer than a year. We we will see. Thanks.
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RAM Tube Workshas three or four choices of excellent graded EL-34... few people match the rigor and extensive screening Roger put in place ( RIP )...
I am running an octet of his along w super low noise 6922 in an RM-9 lovely :-)))) |
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@decooney same company, same great test equipment and high standards. |
@tuberist Gold Lion KT77s are great tubes. Very detailed and dynamic top to bottom. Only shortcoming I experienced was in the mid bass department; a little lean for my taste. However they are really good tubes. Do you prefer the Genelex Gold Lyon KT88 over the KT77 then? |
