Okay, I've been out of the selling game for a number of years, so maybe I'm just not informed. However, I thought that paypal only charges 3% if a credit or debit card is used? If checking is used there are no transaction fees I thought. So why does EVERYONE on this site and Audio Asylum ask for extra money when using Paypal? This seems rather disingenuous to me. If you want to cover paypal charges then make if for when Paypal actually charges you, if you want to make a few extra bucks then raise your price. It just irks me. What am I missing? Are there charges I don't know about?
Because they have a premier account, read up on it. Audiogon has a fee also now, although people try like hell to skirt around it. I would like to see their reaction if it happened to them on payday.
And don't forget, just because someone has a pp account that it's sole purpose is to collect monies from a sale on this site. Alot of businesses accept paypal also incuding postage purchased online from USPS.
My impression is that many of the sellers who add a fee for Paypal also accept checks or money orders, which cost them nothing to deposit and collect through the banking system. So, they look to recover the Paypal fee, which would otherwise reduce their net proceeds.

For myself, when I sell, I only accept Paypal, for a variety of reasons satisfactory to me (and I don't care what anybody else thinks on the subject, thanks very much - I have yet to have an item fail to sell, either here or on eBay, where I also buy and sell). For that reason, I always indicate that I will absorb the fees. But I have on several occasions paid the Paypal fees when buying - I just factor the fees in when evaluating the "buy it now" price or when figuring out what I will offer. I figure it is the seller's right to decide what forms of payment to accept, and whether to require the buyer to pay the Paypal fee. A buyer who does not like the payment terms and total price should pass on the purchase.
And including the 3% in the price does not compute if the buyer accepts a lower price than advertised. Is any of this making sense to you ??
I only use PayPal for the few eBay purchases I make.
All other it is either USPS money order or personal check.
I am no PayPal flunky.
If not using PayPal is too much of a bother, i can skip the transaction. no problem.
I have never charged for taking paypal for selling my personal gear & have never made a purchase that included paypal fees. I will not make a purchase in person that has a different price for cash or credit.

If someone wants to "hide" the fees in the selling price, I don't have any problem with that, because you're not blatantly forcing your fees on me-the fees you are responsible for to make collecting money easier for yourself (at my expense).

For many years I didn't take paypal but have a system in place now that protects myself. Paypal is pretty much one sided in that it (for the most part) protects the buyer.

Also, if someone with an expensive piece of gear can't absorb a $50 fee, they need to rethink buying & selling audio equipment. I've paid the max $100 audiogon fee when selling gear-it's the cost of doing business. Try selling a $5k piece of gear on consignment at your local B&M-they'll charge you 20-30%!
I'd rather figure out 'flat rate' that takes care of my 3% fee than inform the client that he/she must cover it. It's already included, but if the customer decides to pay with cash or check, I may even drop it. Please note that paypal is secure and you can request refund and return the item.
I think the OP is complaining about sellers who charge more than the actual PayPal fee. I've seen many ads were the seller wants 4% for a domestic sale when PayPal only charges 2.9% + $.30. That has bothered me for quite awhile. I don't charge for PayPal and would never pay for PayPal. I've also seen ads were the seller will only accept PayPal and insists that the buyer pay the fees. In some rare instances I've seen ads were the seller wants the buyer to pay the Audiogon fees. How rude!
I have always thought that buyers should pay shipping and seller should pay fees. It is your add not the buyer's.
The cost of selling an item on Audiogon and asking for Paypal payment cost about 5%. I think that is more then fair.
Try getting a fair price on Craigs list.
PayPal has many pluses, however one of them is not the hold on funds. Paypal is structured to protect the buyer, not the seller. The seller is best to absorb the fee by burying it in the price from the outset of the offering and not doing an add on. So, a seller is best protected by check and money order payments, assuming you place a 21 day hold on any shipment. Yes, even United States Postal Orders can bounce. Finally, pick up for cash is must for any turntable, otherwise you are never going to find a 'packing expert'.
US postal orders can be cashed at the post office. once they cash them, that money is yours. Period.
If they do not have enough cash on hand, take what they have, and get a NEW USPO money order for the rest. You know the one you get is good, and can safely deposit in in your checking account. (the cost to you is only $1.25 or so, and gives total peace of mind.
US money orders have one downside that seller can actually cash them and forget about sending the item giving no damn about feedback. There are tricks to get as much as upto a hundred of positive feedbacks and get away with cash in the pocket.
Anyone that has anything bad to say about Paypal are the one's that are going to vote for Obama citing it's bush's fault.
Slikric, Are you trippin'?
Marakanetz, regarding Slikric3000, some people just can't deal with it. He's probably well into Plan B.
I do have bad things to say about Paypal and no I did not vote for Obama. I hope you get burned by them one day so you can find out how they work (or don't work) the hard way. They have their flaws and it is mostly one sided towards crooked buyers. Slikric, you don't know what you are talking about.
There will always be someone that has something bad to say about paypal, always. If I do get burned it won't be for much because the only thing I use it for is nickle and dime purchasing.

Maybe some day you'll have more than nickles and dimes. No I did not vote for Obama, and people your age shouldn't do acid.
I do have more than nickles and dimes but I do not choose to transfer large amounts of money through a payment service and anyone that does is asking for a problem. What does acid have to do with paypal you moron ??
You already said you use nickles and dimes. Guess you spent your big bucks on acid. BTW morons don't retire at 49, if you think so name a couple hundred.
LOL Silcric,
I was only worried of your health and nothing else!
Switch to mary johanna so you'll become more liberal. Been usin' it for quite a number of years myself, now managed to get a 'green card'(prescription) in Portland due to the chronic insomnia and feel OK physically and mentally. The guy or girl with joint in the hand will less-likely draw a gun and fire at someone. That proves why Oregon and especially Portland with chronically depressed population welcomed that beloved green 'lady'. If same would've happened in NYC, maybe there wouldn't be the deadly shooting from laid off depressed individual.
"Switch to mary johanna so you'll become more liberal. Been usin' it for quite a number of years myself, now managed to get a 'green card'(prescription) in Portland"..... (Marakanetz)

Just this morning, (for the 1000th time), I was thinking about moving to OR. Now I have another reason! (Actually, I still haven't been to Portland OR, but visited Seattle years ago & loved it, & all of the Pacific NW I saw).

As far as LSD, let's just say that I went to college in the early 1970's. And I think a lot of the truly uptight people in this country would benefit from a few good "acid trips". Oh, & listening to Bach.....hard to imagine that listening to well recorded Bach could be improved on, but.....

As far as the 3% PP fee, whether you're a buyer, or seller, just figure out the bottom line of what you're willing to pay, or get, & try to negotiate. Last items I bought on A*gon, Totem Mani 2's, seller wanted 3%, I offered to pay half the fee, he accepted, & frankly they were a bargain either way......
I voted for Obama, and will again-what's it to you. And while I'm at it, WTF do you mean to imply by citing David Duke? Your idea of a joke?
Musta been trippin.
From PayPal to Politics and LSD, all in one thread!
Just another day at the white house.
Wow, this thread took a stroll down bizarro highway. I hadn't realized that Paypal and Obama were so intricately connected. Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Still, I seriously doubt that they will be able to overcome the awesome power of the Gay-Inuit-Disney-People who make those plastic things at the end of shoelaces Alliance! (otherwise known as the "GIDPwmtptateosA") Now THAT is a powerful group.... and you don't mess with GIDPwmtptateosA!!!

But sersiously, my original point is that it seems like some sellers are using Paypal as an 'excuse' to add charges that either don't exist or are greater than the real charges. Someone above pointed out the whole 4% crap when it is really just under 3% and the whole getting charged when I am paying using checking is just silliness. It isn't the money so much as the principle. I've sold things for years and I have never seen until recently, a situation where the seller expect their buyer (read: customer) to cover their costs of doing business. Classifieds have almost always cost money, so this isn't an excuse. Even cashing checks cost money for some people, albeit usually the poor. What is next, I need to pay a seller's checking account fees for the right to buy their equipment? I just don't get why these folks feel the need, or indeed the justification, in charging for their
own expenses. To me it is just an underhanded way to get a few more dollars than their items are actually worth.

I have an idea, maybe buyers should start charging for their costs, like getting money orders or the interest you accrue on your credit card when you buy their equipment.... Just figure out the cost and deduct it from your offer. I'm sure sellers would understand..... Wink, wink.
If the buyers don't like the fees they can buy new and pay more. There are listing fees, paypal fees, shipping fees, and final sales fees. What should a seller do? List the equipment for next to nothing, or just ask for the fees and nothing else? I'd throw the item away before I'd give it away to a lowballer.
Buying or selling, FEES everywhere, all about the $money$ nothing else, like the start of a new-wave tax system.
Polk.., I agree with you 100%, but soon lustful fees would overwhelm ebay and either drastically decrease the value of used item or will bring it close to the price of new. One thing I know that I'm not friendly anymore neither to ebay or paypal and sell stuff substantially more on CL. Just a bit of some extra work to advertise in few surrounding different states.
Polk, either I am misunderstanding you or you are misunderstanding me (or rather the point of my thread). I am complaining that people are doing two things:
1. Charging the buyer fees to cover costs that they themselves did NOT have to cover/pay.
2. Or OVERcharging for those fees.

So, while I don't mean to be rude, I object to the notion that someone needs to pass on false charges to me under the guise that they are covering expenses. I don't see how that factors into the price you get for your equipment one tiny jot; 0% of ANY number is zero. So if you are
paying $0 surcharge, why charge 3% and then claim that if you didn't you'd be "giving" your equipment away? I call BS.

As for lowballers, that is an entirely different issue and is unrelated. Set
the price you want for your equipment and see if the market values it that much. It it does, mazel tov. It it doesn't then keep it. Again, no need to pass on fees. You know why? I'll explain:

Unlike others I will still buy from someone who charges for paypal, but I simply factor that into the price I am willing to give them. So if I am buying an amp and it is worth, say, $400 then I'll offer $400. If they want 3% for paypal I'll probably offer $390 or $380. The seller got NOTHING by charging me for paypal.... But he probably drove away some potential buyers.

One last note: I don't know anyone who doesn't expect to pay for
shipping. Only companies and a few sellers in rare cases offer to ship for nada and always as a sort of inducement to purchase. What's more, the so-called free shipping is often built into the price, so again, much of the time you (in this case the buyer) gains little but it sounds really good.

So to me this is simple: build the fees into how much you expect to get for your equipment. I know I am building those fees into what I am willing to pay and I am much more attracted to sellers who don't seem like they are nickel and diming me even if they are getting every nickel and dime. It is just smart.

Then again, that's just my opinion. People have ignored my infinite wisdom before...... ;)
Infinite wisdom? I hardly think so. Even I'm not that smart. I've never tried to charge for anything that was not legit. Listing, shipping, insuring, packaging, paypal and final sales fees are all part of the costs involved. I had a buyer ask me to take a MO for a 4500.00 amp once after the listing expired, so I shipped the item after I cashed his check. I felt the price I asked would cover most all the fees so I put a MO in the box and and deducted the paypal fee and final sales fee that I would have been charged if the deal was done through ebay. I didn't tell him I would I just did it. He emailed me and asked what the MO was for and I explained. He was thankful and bought from me again. But if I have to pay the fees they are passed on to the buyer. If the buyer dosen't agree they can look elseware. Check out my feedback on ebay. Paypal now sends 1099 forms out to sellers. They are expected to pay taxes on sales. Taxes that they paid when they first bought the some items new. Somebody has to pay. I think I deal fairly. Check out my feedback on ebay. If anyone thinks that they are paying fees they shouldn't be paying, they have the option not to buy. You either want the item or you don't.
If you write a check to someone do you ask that person to pay your banking fees? If the buyer were meant to pay the Paypal fees why does Paypal not just charge the buyer in the first place? The seller is charged because he instigated the add, not the buyer.
I have bought just as much as I have sold on Audiogon. As the seller I have always paid the fees and as a buyer I don't like to also pay.
Just my two cents worth.
If paypal could charge the buyers a fee they would! Banking fees for writing a check? I'd get a new bank. Again, if the buyer doesn't want to pay the fees they can look elseware.
Polk, let me see if I understand you correctly. I have no problem with the buyer paying for shipping. I have no problem with the buyer paying PayPal fees as long as there are other options, (personal checks, money orders, wire transfers) and the buyer chooses PayPal. I have a major problem charging the buyer Audiogon fees. If that's what you're doing and you feel justified in do so, I'll repeat what I said in a previous post. How Rude!
Unable to edit previous post. "justified in do so" should read "justified in doing so"
Rude or not. Either have the money to be in the game or butt out and look elseware. Nobody (at least not me) is begging anyone to buy. Pay retail for new if you want. There are closing costs when you buy homes, fees when you buy cars, taxes in stores etc. If the price is right on an item what does it matter what is or is not itemized? Some sellers incorporate the costs into the item being sold, and make it look like there were no additional costs. Did the buyer make out as good or better? NO!!!!!! Best of luck.
If it wasn't for Pay-Pal backing all the scam deals on Audiogon, Audiogon would have to close up shop....Of the last 5 deals I've done on Audiogon,4 have been scam deals...And if Pay-Pal didn't stand behind these bad deals I would have lost thousands....Thanks for the platform ,Will
Interesting posts. I typically would take bank certified cashier's checks or cash. I would ship the item when my bank tells me that the cashier's check has finally cleared. I use paypal only if the buyer insist on me using paypal. If that is the case and they don't want to send the cashier's check or pick the item up and pay cash, then since they insisted on me using paypal, then they should pay the paypal fees. Logical no?

Auto spec, I don't understand, could you elaborate?

I've got more replies but my head is falling fast for the pillow. I'll get back at you all tomorrow!
How many other trades or market places demand that buyers cover the Paypal merchant's transaction fee ? Very few, I'd say. If a name brand merchant accepts Paypal, it does not charge an extra 3 % . Nearly zero online or physical merchants surcharge for credit card transactions. I have in 11 years never seen an Ebay seller do it. Try getting off your high horses and realize it is a small price to pay for the assurance your payments are genuine. Build the fee into your prices, accept other instruments of payment, or don't accept Paypal.
Paypal commissions are more than the 3, 4 or 5%.
Last month I paypaled Eur 105 to someone in France and he received ... only Eur 99. That's over 6% commission... as it seems to me.
PAYPAL overcharges... and time to stay away imho.
I think the fees depends on the country where you live.