PayPal screws over the seller if it comes down to an issue. I have the buyer pay for PP fees so that’s not an issue. I have been for years protecting myself so nothing is coming back. For example: signature on delivery. There have been a couple of times people wanted their money back because they didn’t receive the product, but when I showed them the receipt with signature that somebody signed for it, they amazingly said, oh ya, we got it. I also take pictures of the unit inside and out so if somebody tries something like a broken part or wants to bait and switch their bad unit with my good 1, it’s all caught on video, especially the serial number and pics on how I packaged the unit. Just recently someone complained about a vintage unit was broken, but I got pics that they ok’d of how it was packaged, and a video showing the unit working before shipping. They backed off after I told them I took pics of the unit inside and out
to: sleepwalker65Maybe people are growing tired of Paypal's Nazi-style censorship of opinion. I am thinking of discontinuing Paypal, they are antithetical to American values.
Just my thoughts on the matter
Tonydennison, PayPal is the only assurance that a buyer has when conducting a transaction with a stranger.
Consider for a minute how eBay screws over the buyer to protect its sellers (rejecting all claims when item arrives in much worse condition often with concealed damage; and removing negative feedback that might illustrate how dishonest a small number of eBay sellers are). If not for PayPal, the customer would be stuck with having paid for a product and receiving one that is of inferior condition.
The “nazi” mentality you describe applies to eBay just as much, if not more. If you wish, I can cite specific examples of transactions with such corrupt sellers.
So, in the absence of PayPal, we’re presented with the classic dilemma: how to ensure controls are in place to protect buyers.
SAD BUT TRUE
It is disappointing that Agon has hitched themselves to the PayPal wagon.
PayPal is not a Merchant bank!!! They are a third party transaction broker that piggybacks off of real merchant banks and charges outrageous fees. So If the interchange rate - set by Merchant Banks - is averaged at 1.89% per transaction - Pay Pal will charge over 6% read the fine print..... They collect on both sides! I guess there are those who don't mind being overcharged.
They definitely have the marketing down and make it seem like everything is easy peasy - a one and done transaction system with all of these "Controls" in place. They just want their money / fees. That said they make up their policies as they go with no rhyme, reason or justification - also in the fine print.....
About a year ago I attempted a transaction on Agon as a buyer through PayPal. They held up the deal citing that I needed to become a member and pay fees before allowing the transaction to go through. When I said I was not interested they refused to return my money. They bragged that they could keep my money indefinitely as they saw fit as per the fine print.
What they did not realize at the time is that I had them on speaker phone with my bank JP Morgan Chase Fraud department. When the Chase rep chimed in and questioned their statements and the validity of what they were suggesting from a legal standpoint, Pay Pal asked who is this?. When Chase announced who they were, Pay Pal immediately hung up.My money was returned within 3 hours. Needless to say I never was able to make my purchase.
Six months later out of coincidence I met a C suite executive from Pay Pal regarding a possible business transaction with Pay Pal through the company I rep in my day job. I told my story to this executive who vowed that a full investigation was going to made. Nothing happened.
What I have learned is that Pay Pal is based out of Singapore so they are not held to any US banking regulatory laws.
PayPal is subject to all US banking regulatory laws. Why spread misinformation that may or may not have been received second or third hand? I have held a PayPal business Debit Card for over 10 years and never had a problem using it for purchases, using it to take $$ out of my account via ATM or making purchases through my email account with PayPal. I was even scammed as a buyer and all my money was returned to me within 24 hours. The fee they take from you is the same fee that Visa/MC/AMEX & Discover charge their merchants. If you are selling something via PayPal, you are the merchant and pay the fee. I bet that people with problems are in the vast minority. Even your CC Companies aren’t perfect.
There are sufficient numbers of PayPal horror stories to make the seller beware.
Those who have been burned will gladly share their stories. It is not unheard of the disgruntled buyer can get his money back and not have to return the product.
Its wise to check and confirm buyer feedback, and make a personal contact on big $$ sales. It only takes one bad apple. I have a local person who only deals in cash and in person from the welt he endured from PayPal.
I had a problem with accessing PayPal just the other day. It is an Audiogon issue or requirement (take your pick). If the item you are buying is a "Buy it Now" sale, you cannot access PayPal until you select the "Add Credit Card" button and add a credit card, which Audiogon claims they do not retain. Once you complete this seemingly useless task, PayPal is enabled.
I've had good experience with Paypal over the years, but I try to be careful to ensure I'm not getting scammed by anyone.
My experience is mostly with camera gear, not audio, but overall, the photo community is pretty reasonable and honest, but there are scammers about , so you have to be careful, as you do with audio gear as well. Just don't sell on Ebay...
Even PP's fees are reasonable as far as I'm concerned. Without having a full business infrastructure, there really aren't any other payment methods that are widely accepted and that have lower fees. Yes, the fees used to be better, but they are overall competitive with anyone else I've looked into in the past.
As for my original question, there is a hitch in the A-gon website that makes it appear that it is calling on PP to sign in, but it apparently doesn't quite handshake with the site correctly. I had changed my PP password a while ago, and so A-gon was passing it an old password. Not sure why they are even storing a password on their site at all anyway. I'm not sure I like that one bit. They should only be setting up the handshake and allow my local browser to make the handshake, but that's not what occurs.
Anyway, I got it working. Thanks for the comments and help folks.
In the eyes of the SEC PayPal is not a bank. - But that hasn’t stopped it from Posing like one.
The main Point mentioned in above link provided by Pay Pal Themselves
14. LEGAL AND REGULATORY MATTERS
Bank Regulatory Matters
Because the Company is not licensed as a bank, it is not permitted to engage in a banking business. The Company does not require customers to keep funds in the Company's system in order to use the Company's product. Although the definition of a "banking business" varies among state laws, and is not limited to entities that take deposits, the Company believes that its principal risk of being deemed to be engaged in unauthorized banking activities, as indicated in the concerns raised by the four states described below, arises from the possibility that the Company may be deemed to be keeping money on account for customers or otherwise accepting deposits.
The Company has taken two principal steps intended to create the result that customers who carry balances available for future spending through PayPal are not "keeping money on account" with the Company:
•as of August 2001, the Company changed its user agreement and the management of its customers' funds so that, for customers who choose to carry balances but do not enroll in the money market sweep, the Company acts as agent for the customers in placing their money in bank accounts, and the Company does not have discretion to loan out those funds, or spend the funds for its corporate purposes. The Company has established relationships with three banks under which it places customer funds outside of the Money Market Fund into Agency Accounts at these banks.
PayPal is a third-party processor platform vendor, also referred to as an aggregator. That means the company on boards merchants as sub-users of one, giant merchant account that includes the entirety of PayPal’s merchant base.
Within a traditional merchant account your funds are deposited directly into your checking or savings account within 48 hours from the time the credit card transaction is settled.
With PayPal, you must wait until the funds from the sale are deposited to your PayPal account before you can request another transfer of these funds to your business account, which can take another three to five days.
By holding on to your money longer in your Pay Pal account, the Company is collecting more interest on the entirety of their sub merchants base. AKA - Your Account X 17MM others . Placing those funds in out side Agency Accounts with three other Banks, SEC Filling specifically point 14. above. Unfortunately is not FDIC protected.
IMO this translates to facing greater risk as PayPal can terminate your account and or place a hold on your funds with no notice to you. In some cases Indefinitely. In the US regulatory banking system -that is Illegal. But they are not a Bank!
PayPal does charge extra fees relating to payment processing
1.5% Cross-Border Transaction Fee: For US merchants who accept online payments from buyers out of the country, or in-person transactions involving a card from outside the US, PayPal charges a 1.5% cross-border fee.
2.5% Currency Conversion Fee: If PayPal has to convert the currency before it deposits the funds in your own account, you’ll pay another 2.5% conversion fee. Whether you have to pay the conversion fee depends on the customer’s bank - whether it will handle the currency conversion (usually at a cost to the customer).
1.5%+ 2.5% + 2.9% = 6.9 % + $0.30
Visa and master card fees are listed here
most vendors charge + $0.10
There is also
$20 Chargeback Fee: Chargeback fees are pretty standard, and if a customer files a chargeback against you, PayPal will assess a $20 fee in addition to withdrawing the funds to cover the transaction amount the highest rated in the industry.
"Apart from the issue of account terminations or funding holds, the only other consistent complaint about PayPal is its customer service, and reports vary. Some merchants say they’ve never had a problem with customer service. Others say that their support reps have been downright unhelpful when they’ve called in. Fortunately, PayPal offers extensive self-help resources so you should be able to deal with most technical issues without having to contact PayPal directly."