Mundorf MKP Audiophiler or ClarityCap ESA ?


hi to all :) , 
i must replace electrolytic cap in my crossover.
for midbudget polypropylene caps i've thought to :

- mundorf mkp audiophiler  
- claritycap ESA

opinions abut them?

thank you
707aac35 ba11 4f7e 8817 5337f260f2bfaudio4pass
Um, Clarity just released a new version, which replaces ESA, called CSA.

If you want dark, but fabulous low level detail, go with Mundorf MKP.

If you want a brighter, arier cap, CSA.

I can't stress enough though, the MKP has TONS of low level detail and ambience, but it's a better cap when you want to tame the high end. It's also cheap enough playing with it won't break your budget. :)

Best,

E
I should also say, both of these cap lines are on the darker side.

The Mundorf Supreme's are much brigher arier, but add a kind of oily, scintilating color.  It's VERY nice but NOT natural.

The Clarity CMR are as open and airy, but lack the coloration. It's where I go if I can afford in a project.

E
thank you erik but my choice is on Mundorf MKP or claritycap ESA, not CSA, CMR or supreme
only those two: do you compared mundoerf mkp vs claritycap ESA ?

thank you for your response
Yes. Just that ESA is being discontinued, so doulbe check with your supplier. :)

My overal comments are that the ESA is darker than the CSA, but not as dark as the MKP.
the ESA is not being discontinued, i mailed claritycap.
they discontinued SA infact on site is not visible anymore
remain ESA (that replace SA) and MR.

p.s.
i find mundorf mkp, not dark but dry sound, sometime harsh
Post removed 
@timlub 
do you compared mundorf mkp vs claritycap ESA or one of these ?
in your message are not mentioned
Post removed 
OOPS! Sorry about that bit of misinformation. I should ask them. The ESA and MR lines went on sale simultaneously in advance of the release of the CSA and CMR so I erroneously assumed they were being phased out.

My apologies for the incorrect information.

Best,


E
@timlub
no problem, but i asked for mundorf MKP vs claritycap ESA

@erik_squires
yes only SA series has gone, now the ESA replace SA.
certainly this growup the already excellent claritycap lines.

p.s.
i hope someone has compared mundorf MKP vs claritycap ESA :)
Audio, since I use both Mundorf MKP and ESA that is actually what i’m comparing it to. My comments on CSA were based no the delta between MR and CMR, thinking you’d hear the same steps up. :)

Sorry, I now have double confirmation you were right about what lines were current and I was wrong! :-)

But as their US distributor notes here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/clarity-cap-lines/post?postid=1421502#1421502

The ’C’ versions are meaningful steps up, for close to the same money.

You can see why I might have assumed they were discontinuing the older 2 lines, especially since I started to see deep discounts.

Best,

E


ok so what are the differences between MKP and ESA ?
please clarify me :)
Mundorf MKP : Great low amplitude detail, and ambience/room acoustics but pretty dark. Great choice for harsh tweets.

ESA: Little less room acoustics/low level detail but slightly brighter.
You know, the point I want to make too is, Mundorf MKP's are super cheap, and a big upgrade from electrolytics.

Why don't you go ahead and replace oru caps with Mundorfs, and if you find htem dark, try ESA.
some time ago...oh my memory....:)...my friend has tried ESA vs MKP
the mkp is good but quite rough and something harsh in mid-high freq not high freq that are dark.
mkp has strange sound: with some music sound better then other caps, but with other kind of music they sound harsh in mid-hifgh, dry but dark
the esa was another word and is better then mkp in all parameters, but i don’t remenber well bacause the test was done by my friend
I've heard 1 person really dislike MKP.

I think they are a nice step up from the cheap Solens (not sure about expensive Solens) so some of this may have to do on the tweetr/mid you are using.

Again, it is SOooooo cheap, you should just go ahead and try them out. About $7/cap.

Give them a week or so to break in. If you don't like them, or want to try ESA too, go ahead.

I really think right now both are so inexpensive, you should not listen to me at all, but listen for your own ears. :)

Best,


E
:)
@erik_squires  Hi Erik,  I consider the MKP to be on par with the better of the cheap solens... Solens ar PA/PB/PPE   before you get the silver or film & foil... I do like the MKP's better than the PA or PB, but ever so slightly prefer the PPE or the Mundorf MKP.... Well, I guess really the application depends... The MKP are a touch more lively, but can get congested easy,  the PPE is a tad more neutral and stage forward.... Just depends on what suits your fancy and the application,  but these 2 caps are very much on par...  Above this level,  I do prefer the Mundorfs over the solens. 
you are right tim, no word is better: the MKP "congested easy".
infact i believe that micro informations at low level of the MKP that erik say, is due the MKP are opened soon their detail and so congested before other caps.
this is my point of view, so i said that MKP has strange sound sometime
I never had this congestion others are mentioning. Did a few Focal mods. A commercial fan of the Mundorf MKP is B&W, famous for also using these micro-motor tweets.

Best,

E
@erik_squires 
Hi Erik,   Just thinking about your last comment.... I can easily see how a cap could do something with one speaker and not another.  Or vice versa,  not do something....  Depending on how a cap reacts to Load, frequency, and its own dielectric absorption rate,  it could certainly react differently from one speaker to another.  So with that,  It also explains why a cap is favorable on one speaker and not another.
@erik_squires
all the persons whoi i know that tried mundorf mkp and claritycap ESA say the esa are more fine and analogue then mundorf mkp, also that mkp are good but dry sound
I like Clarity ESA more than MKP.

But for me it is about tone, not congestion.

If you have harshness you want to get rid of, MKP is the better cap.

If your tweets are relatively neutral but you want more open, then ESA
hi erik thank you for your contribution, but i listen ESA darker and more analogue than MKP.
probably in your system has different response
Mundorf MKP white caps ,not even in the ball park vs the New Clarity CSA
the C is a Copper lattice work on both ends ,this includes their flagship .
thse I directly compared to the ESA Clarity  , Tony Gee gave these only a 9
i found that these capacitors take an additional 50-75 Hrs ,or up to 250 hours to Fully settle in . Tony Gee- of humble homemade hificapacitor test  even quoted 
the CSA had a much more dramatic improvement vs the top CMA  but only gave them  from. A 8.5 on the ESA, to a 9 . Myself and at least 4 of my brothers friends 
tested both plus my test I documented the same 8 song  variety ,
without question 9.5-10 only after giving the 250 hours , Tony Gee is excellent helped guide me when I had my shop in the UK ,he is allways very busy. I find in some respects I like these better then the 
Mundorf Supreme I was using ,they sound a bit more open ,the Mundorf are warmer and can be better in some systems  , the CSA caps still have body but seem a bit faster . On my AMT tweeter I just started with cap  change on the tweeter , the amt from Monitor Audio very fast detailed and smooth ,it lets you hear Anychanges. In my system 
I have found nothing remotely close in cost that is this good . I have many years well over 15k just in hours on caps and resistors ,since I had a Audio store back in 01.
i have -0 to gain,  just  my opinions . Your choices may vary for a low to mid price cap the Clarity CSA  is a Solid  cap.  I am basing this too on the 250v models 
using  NOS Mills Resistors , which by the way are not just black ,Brown dull and shiny coats also . Path Audio is one of the best at $30 each , French  brand  also are very good but Waaay over priced want over $100 each. Mills was first to designed the  1st non inductive wirewound  resistor using Tinned Copper leads.
for $4 in a 10w  a true bargain . Happy Listening .
AudioCap Theta are the best crossover capacitors in the world.
@invictus005
Sorry, not trying to offend, but In my experience AudioCap Theta are bright sounding and they lean thin and are not the last word in transparency.
I can only suggest that you do some comparisons. I personally prefer any Clarity or Mundorf to these.... Of course, its only an opinion and based upon my own designs.  
@timlub Thetas have historically been described as dense, rich, and more laid back than other film/foil capacitors yet are very detailed. This matches my own experience. I’ve been using them for the past 20 years in various projects.

If they sound thin and bright in your system, it must be poor synergy. But I’m pretty sure it’s not the Theta’s fault. 
Hi invictus005, 
    Well,  I've been building 35 years and they have not been in my current system,  but again,  its only an opinion, I could be the only one …. and I've use hundreds of different caps,so I could have a shady memory on the caps, as in maybe a different Audiocap model, but I recall them being  yellow with red writing,  I bought a slew of them at the time and ended up trading them off. I recall them as being Theta's. 
i think that mundorf is the most over rated and over priced caps in the world.
IMHO
I just ran across this guy that has tested a hundred or so different caps extensively.  Not sure how good his ears are, but he goes into a lot of detail about different caps.  I must say that after Invictus being soooo adamant about the Audiocaps that I had definitely wondered if that is what I tested several years ago. If nothing else,  it is an interesting read and a gauge between different caps. Nice comparisons between different Mudorfs and Clarity caps.  I hope this is helpful to someone out there.  Tim 

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

@timlub That guy’s opinions and that site is one giant pile of crap. I can’t believe you’re peddling it. 
That guy’s opinions and that site is one giant pile of crap
And your evidence is . . . ?
I will soon upgrade the caps on my Thiel CS2.4s with Clarity CSA (plus ~1% Multicap RTX bypasses for the coax feeds).
@beetlemania Go for it. But CSA won’t be much of an upgrade from the existing Solen/Axon caps.

MultiCap RTXs are amazing, but not for work crossover work. 

If you want a real upgrade, use film/foil, otherwise why bother? 

My Thiel boards are full of CYC MKTs, not Solens. The CSAs *are* a film cap, no?

I will report my subjective results on the "Thiel Owner's Thread". I've already upgraded my resistors with Mills MRA-12s to great satisfaction.

Meanwhile, what is your evidence that humblehomemadehifi "is one giant pile of crap"?
@invictus005
You seem to be taking this stuff personal... I is not meant to be. I am not peddling anything, but I have read through his site thoroughly. After you piqued my interest, I went searching to see if it was indeed Audiocaps that I had years ago, that is when I ran across this.
In general, film & foil caps are better than metalized polypropylene caps for sure, but every cap is different....
Are you saying that all film & foils are better than all Metalized poly’s? Are Polystyrenes better? What about Teflon’s? I know for sure that there are exceptions.

You know, one of the better caps that I’ve ever heard is an old Poly carbonate. Man, Just rich, great extension, detailed... we had about 100 of them, I don’t even know their brand was, but I wish that I could lay my hands on some of those today.

Also, You say CSA will not be an upgrade over Solen??? come on, really. although, I have done many Solen PPE bypassed with either a .5mfd or ever a 1.0 mfd K71 old Russian Poly Styrene with excellent results. Overall, I found the opinions on the Humble site fairly close to mine, although, there were a few times that I thought he was really off... but he has definitely taken the time to listen to and document many caps. Not too many people can say the same. I have a lot of respect for the guy just doing it.
I don’t ever want to come off disrespectful to anyone on this site, we are all at a different state of learning. I can only hope that we can all respect each other     AND by the way.  I have also experimented with several machine start up caps.  I've been shocked by a few at how good they sounded... When you need 50 mfd or better,  some of those will surprise you.  Of course,  here it is a complete risk of return on the investment, but I've been pleasantly surprised. 

@beetlemania Thiel used CYC as bypass capacitors. They’re film. Was this ever questioned? 2.4s’ main capacitors are Solen or Axon branded (all made by SCR), and even several electrolytic capacitors. I recommend you leave this project alone.
Um, yes, the 1 uF bypasses are CYC but you otherwise have incorrect info about the caps on my boards. BTW, I am working with Tom Thiel for this upgrade! My plan was to go with CMRs but he steered me to CSA+Multicaps.

Meanwhile, I see zero evidence that your opinion is more credible than that of humblehomemadehifi . . .


@timlub Film/foil construction is always superior. If I had a choice, I’d use Teflon, but the price is ridiculous. Poly/tin Theta is a wonderful alternative, priced reasonably, and come in values up to 12uF. Styrene/tin is even better, but again prices and values are not suitable for crossover work. Rel-Cap is a good American company, which also supplies the military. They are at the top of the highest end capacitors in the world. 
@invictus005....    Lets just say that we have a difference in opinion for sure.... Yes,  overall, I'd rather have a film & foil over a metalized poly and yes, styrene's are better and yes Teflon's are better yet.... Overall, these are true statements,  but still way off,  Teflon's tend to lean cool sounding, very detailed, but in the wrong situation are not always the best choice.  All film & foils are not created equal, nor are all Poly Propylene caps. To use the statement "Always Superior"... is just not accurate.  Otherwise, we would only have 3 or 4 cap choices,  why would we need more if one was always better? 
Overall,  I really do agree with you,  but my experience is very different than yours and I cannot put absolutes on the statements that you have made. 
@timlub Copper/silver/tin/film are always superior to any metallized capacitors. Maybe not always for aluminum/film. As terminating the leads or anything to aluminum is problematic. 

Even so, metallized capacitors are sprayed with conductive paint/glue on each end and leads are coiled and press fit. Ever take one apart? You can gently wiggle them out. It’s a terrible termination and one of the reasons why they will always be nosier than film/foil types. 

CSA caps are even worse. They spray the extended metallized aluminum ends with copper. Copper corodes aluminum. 
Ok,  I guess that I'm just wrong about Teflon's leaning cool, so please  set everyone straight and list the 4 caps that we should all use... 
Everyone will be relieved that we no longer need to shop or go through this extensive testing or read from hacks on the internet.  We can simply use your 4 caps.  

I'm sure that you will list excellent caps by the  way and yes, there is sarcasm above that last statement.  Its obvious that you cannot be reasoned with regardless of what many many others have heard.  I'm really glad that this isn't a political forum.  
claritycap CSA are enormus upgrade over the solen.
I spoke with Clarity , their new Copper lattice work connections 
are not a Copper coating that will corrode aluminum ,their engineers laughed when 8 told then that . It is a Copper lattice work.they spend 18 months testing and listening .
do you really think the CSA, And CMR would be brought to msrketto be worse ? The CSA is a 10 rating from my tests after giving them a solid 250 hours to totally runin.  A very good cap.
if you  are into tweaking the Synergistic Carbon Xover enhancers 
are a very good reasonably priced plug in with a 60 days refund if not satisfied, On Audiogon under tweaks  retail$450, but 
Highend Audio , will sell for around $400 with Free Priority mail.
for $400 a pair the new ones using  Graphine low level detail ,tone 
and depth all improvement.