Sgr, take a look at my review of the Martin Login Subs that I use in my system here on the Gon for the details regarding their sonic performance. JL Audio, Rell and others get great mention, rightly so, however the new generation of ML subs has some very interesting features and is priced very competively. E-mail if you want to discuss.
Wilson Benesch Infrasonic generators...period!
If you have a large room you may want to consider 2 subs. (This was just discussed on a earlier thread). I have had great results with Rel over the years.
Another strong vote for Rel. Completely musical with the ability to be seamlessly dialed in to your system.
What about MJ ACOUSTICS. Made in England. Excellent bass,
In my room, there is 35-40Hz suckout deal to bass cancellation at midline of the room. This is not present at 4 ft from the rear wall or 11 ft from the rearwall. Have you moved the seat backward and forward and remeasure? Is this present when you move the mic one to two feet off midline? How many db is it?
Sub may work too but better off minimizing the problem before adding the subs.
definitely rel ! great integration.
After 2 years of working with subs, my conclusion is:
Just make sure that you have digital room correction for the sub(s).
This will address the issue you're trying to fix. Beyond that, any good sub - there are lots - will probably do the trick. However, do take a look at the subwoofer tests at HTshack.com. Make sure that there's enough LF extension, clean output capability, and damping (sometimes called "speed" on these threads, measured as "group delay" on the test pages) for your taste. Disclaimer: Some out there equate "speed" with small drivers, Group Delay has no apparent correllation to driver size. Make your own call on this one.
I use 2 Rythmik subs, but have auditioned JL extensively (terrific, but pricey). Both measure very well (Rythmiks better group delay - JL more clean output capability way down low). Many of the SVS models measure almost as well as JL (the SVS cabinets are much bigger and less "sexy") at a fraction of the price. The JL's include a basic DRC function, the Rythmiks and SVS require an external DRC unit. Mine is the Velodyne SMS-1 (I also use an NHT x-1 x-over for low cut on the main speakers, because I'm not crazy about the internal low cut circuit included in the Velo SMS-1). SVS sells a DRC box they designed with Audyssey - it requires an external x-over if you choose to low cut your mains.
Thanks for all your help so far. I'm going to play around with moving the chair back and forth as suggested by Glai this morning. Then I'll know better what to do.
If I went with the JL Audio subs, which would be better for music, the F-112 or the F-113s?
Thanks for all your help.
thiel makes excellent subs for music. super fast, accurate and tight.
The 113s have a little greater clean output capablity in the very lowest registers (and/or, in HT use, ultimate infrasonsic extention for effects). If you use 2 subs (always recommended), the 112s should be indistinguishable (on music) from the 113s unless:
A) Your room is huge
B) You want those old dental fillings to fall out
I have found REL subs integrate incredibly well with main speakers for music. It simply sounds like the main speakers got way better.
Besides musical,Thiel also has a superb 10 WARRANTY.
Lots of great recommendations. I'll just add this one...
Seems like they could potentially match the excellent JL Audio units at a big discount. If this one's out of your price range I think there's a smaller sibling that might also be worth checking out. Best of luck.
The difference between high quality subwoofer systems pales in comparision to what the room does to their outputs. In the bass region, the elephant in the room IS the room.
Some have advocated using two subs, and I would join with them. Preferably, position them asymmetricaly. This way each will produce a significantly different room-interaction peak-and-dip pattern at any given listening position, and the sum of these two dissimilar peak-and-dip patterns will be audibly smoother than either one alone. This may seem counter-intuitive, but I can explain the acoustics and psychoacoustics behind it if anyone would like.
I strongly concur with REL as above...I have the Strata III with Vienna Mozarts.
Vandersteen woofers are also highly regarded both in sound and in value.
I guess I have to play devils advocate here and state that the B&W ASW 850 is the best I have heard so far for music and movies. I have it seamlessly integrated in my all tube system and the sub is located on the right side of the right speaker facing towards the same plain across the linear path of both speakers. In all of my measuring and experimentation this is where it sounds best.
Now I am ready to take the plunge and get another one to play around with and see how much better I could make the music experience. But one 15" sub sure does fill my room pretty good already when I need it to jam for rock music, I hate to see how two 15"s will do. For other types of music, the sub is omnipresent without a hint of its existence, except for deep bass energy when I switch off the sub EQ, Velodyne SMS1 and realize that a song had some more energy associated with it, but it is minimal in nature and the sounfield is more alive and vibrant with the sub in action.
So I know I want a pair of subs, I'm leaning toward JL Audio, what do you use for a high pass filter, since most subs only come with a low pass filter? From everything I've read, just using a low pass filter and trying to blend the sub with the mains, sounds problematic.
It seems like the Velodyne SMS-1 might be a good choice.
Would I need two for stereo subs? How good is its circuitry? I'll also post this question separatly.
I have not heard the JLs, but I still am amazed by my pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subs. Musical, powerful, and clean bass, and they have blended seemlessly with both Vandersteen mains and my new Ohm Walsh mains. Probably my most satisfying hifi purchase to date.
another vote for the Thiel sub
The SMS1 will take over all functions of the subwoofer and you will be free to experiment with it as you wish. You can let the SMS1 do its own analysis for a starting point and play around from there. The lowpass crossover frequency is adjustable from 15-199 herz. More than enough ajustability for most installations. You can daisy chain up to three subs to the SMS1 with all receiving the same processed signal or you can add multiple SMS1's in another type of daisy chain configuration with each sub getting their own equalized signal.
On the subwoofer itself, all subwoofer settings for EQ must be turned off or bypassed. The same for phase and contour settings. You will need to have the volume about 1/3 up to allow you to play with settings and make comparisons. The SMS1 will allow you to tweak like crazy. It is really easy to use and integrate, at least in my system, so YMMV.
If you are willing to spend the money I would look at the Martin Logan Descent, just as fast and deep as anything out there. They also have built in high pass filters to run your mains through for easy integration.