Is this another way of streaming FM? It's limited to 15Khz as well but with streaming, you have more bandwidth limited music at your fingertips. At least FM is free. Sorry for the snark but that's how I've always felt about streaming. For those who like it, more power to ya. When they finally figure out universal standards and simplify the process, then maybe I'll try it all out. The closest I've come to it is with using some nice active speakers with a built in DAC taking it directly via USB from my Mac. I only listen do casual listening and it's really not bad, either with my stored music or with i nternet FM listening. But it pales compared to my CD based rig and I'm not about to dump lots of money into something that's changing and improving as I write this. The process would drive me crazier than I am now. 😀 All the best, Nonoise |
Which vinyl test record do you own that's flat out to 20kHz? I have yet to find one. I have three and all drop fairly sharply at around the 16-18kHz range.
Also, I preferred the sound of Tidal when I compared it to Qobuz earlier this year. Tidal had more treble extension to my ears and Qobuz had more bass and midrange warmth. We are talking about the margin of splitting hairs here though.
I don't doubt you are reading a 15kHz cutoff but I am pretty positive I am hearing over 15kHz with Roon/Tidal in my setup. Are you sure your streamed audio isn't being transcoded somewhere in your audio chain? Not sure what frequency response mp3 has because I never listen to them. |
Is it an issue? Show your last hearing test.
I’m my day hifi was defined as 50-15000.
Do you really need more than you can use.
Makes for good troll food though.
You get what you pay for with FM radio.
I sold my tuner years ago for what it was worth, next to nothing.
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tonywinga It is an abrupt cutoff above 15 kHz while streaming. What's going
on? What kind of hardware and software are you using?
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Got to trot out the compressed woes?
For what? |
Because nothing is compressed in life’s sounds, why do it to our music!!
Is a live artist you sit in front of compressed NO!
(my theory is for the companies to save space on streaming/downloads)
Also leaving it uncompressed gives the music a chance to breath, (you can’t have loud bits if there are no quiet bits), also gives the ears/brain a chance to breath as well, instead of everything being the same level and sounding confused.
Cheers George
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Hi Tony,
Interesting question. (and great system, btw!) I'm running Tidal on my setup but have a trial for QoBuz and would like to install and test this issue. Do you recommend any particular FFT analyzer app for iPhone?
Howard
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I use the app called n-track tuner on my iPhone. My vinyl test record is Stereo Review SRT14 from the 1980s. It’s hard to use for wow and flutter measurements because the hole is off center by almost the full tolerance- or maybe that’s they way they wanted it. I am using a RS9 music server running Roon. |
@tonywinga I’m not sure what’s going on then. I pulled out a spectrometer app just for kicks and I get plenty of action even over 20kHz+ (at my listening position) with Roon+Tidal in my setup. All fiber LAN. Running a mini PC feeding a PS Audio DS DAC Bridge II to Ayre KX/VX-5 Twenty pre and power amps powering Legacy Focus SE speakers. /shrug, all good here. |
My guess would be something in your streaming setup is filtering above that frequency. Could be a setting somewhere. |
While you may not hear above 15khz, the overall effect on the music can be significant. After decades of working on my system, and own Heils and other planar speakers I realized that the real high frequency has a profound impact on the overall sound quality. I have not fiddled with measuring up that high. But a cut off sounds artificial. I’ll be interested to hear more about this. |
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I did the same experiment but used test tones played back from my PC and the response seemed to stop at 15 to 16KHz. I suspect the reason was not my test tones or my system, but a limitation of the iPhone microphone. |
All you need to know about quality streaming. Courtesy of Bryston. Beware; Have a fat wallet if you want the best in the industry. Between approximately $4000 and $12,000 to stream and play your high resolution music at its best. https://bryston.com/digital-audio/ |
Played back from my PC and the response seemed to stop at 15 to 16KHz. I suspect the reason was not my test tones or my system, but a limitation of the iPhone microphone.
I suspect it more that they save 20% of streaming/download space by not letting it go out to 20k regardless if there's info on it or not. Cheers George |
I checked my Roon settings. The only thing I find related to frequency response is a low pass filter which is set at 30 kHz. I don't think that is the issue. The speakers go the full 20 kHz when playing back a FLAC version of my CD test disk loaded on the music server HDD. The iPhone mic picks up 20 kHz no problem as I saw both from the CD test disc and my vinyl test record. |
The only thing I find related to frequency response is a low pass filter which is set at 30 kHz Depends what order it is and how many db down at 30k it already is. Cheers George |
Nonoise - you use a mediocre system for your streaming test (speakers with a built in dac and using usb probably using iTunes too) and you think this is a good representation of a good streaming system? I’ll take streaming/playing ripped songs over using a CD player or vinyl. |
15khz! That’s crazy! Now, if you don’t mind, I’m gonna listen to my records. Good stuff…
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This is all not so straight forward. I streamed music, both 16 bit and 24 bit and I see frequenciies out to 20kHz. Then I went back to the test disc on Qobuz titled, "Audio Line-up Test Tones". Some tracks cut off at 15kHz such as the test tones at specific frequencies, frequency sweeps and some pink noise tracks but some tracks go out to 20 kHz such as the white noise tracks and other pink noise tracks at -10dB for example. Really strange is that the specific 18 kHz test tone track shows no response for me while my own test CD shows a response at that frequency just fine.
My conclusion is Qobuz is streaming the full bandwidth and I happened to stumble across a test disc in their library with some foibles. |
As it turns out it is not me and it is not Qobuz. It is the Test CD in their library. The question is why. Why do some tracks on the CD cutoff at 15 kHz but other tracks do not? And why did this happen on a test CD of all things? |
Try a signal generator and see what your upper limit of hearing is.
Bet you can't hear 15k at all.
Moot point. |
I think it’s an apple thing OP. If you stream from an apple device hi rez stuff gets compressed by apple. Heard this from some folks
Check it’s not a app setting though
I have lots of apple devices but I use a Samsung phone and bubble upnp to stream qobuz. |
P.s compressed music can sound mighty good indeed if it's been compressed thoughtfully from red book or high res.
You can lose very little quality, especially with a DAC that upsamples well.
However if the recording is poor and compressed from the get go you will notice.
Recording quality is orders of magnitude more important than digital compression. |
I think markc nailed it: "I suspect the reason was not my test tones or my system, but a limitation of the iPhone microphone." |
p05129, go back and read what I wrote. There's nothing between the lines that said I stream anything. There's that qualifying phrase, The closest I've come to it is with using some nice active speakers with a built in DAC taking it directly via USB from my Mac. I only listen do casual listening and it's really not bad, either with my stored music or with internet FM listening. But it pales compared to my CD based rig and I'm not about to dump lots of money into something that's changing and improving as I write this. The process would drive me crazier than I am now. 😀 Like others here who've already pointed out, it's really expensive to have a great sounding streaming set up. Lots of online reviewers have been saying that for a long time now. All the best, Nonoise |
@tonywinga You should be a little more careful before posting. Everyone in a tizzy over miscalculation, this is exactly how misinformation is spread.
I applaud you for quickly acknowledging your mistake.
I will agree with Nonoise that optimized streaming will be great sounding, but not inexpensive or simple to accomplish.
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Well clearly the issue was never qobuz service as best I could tell and now we know it was a particular recording in this case a test recording. Not uncommon for individual recordings to have severe limitations that may or may not matter. Case solved. |
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It's not the limitation of iPhone microphone it's a limitation of the way apple wireless devices stream.
The stream actually passes through the phone and apple compressed it. |
