Do I really want the musicians in my room?

I've spent the last month - as time allows, at least - auditioning some of the popular gold/gold hybrid cables on the market. I noticed something very striking between a couple of the manufacturers: with one set in my system, my system "puts the musicians in my room". With another, the musicians are not in my room, but in the room the recording was made in; that is, I can hear the reverberataions in the studio or the venue. When I listen to the former, I think about how much information is on the source that I'm not hearing; with the latter, I wonder why I've spent ridiculous sums of money to get such resolution. Interestingly, though, my experience has been the "less resolving" "musicians are here" cables tend to have a more lush, seductive sound, while the "higher resolving" cables have a faster, more detailed sound. Which I prefer depends on my mood and the type of music I'm listening to.

Unfortunatly, it seems to me that these conditions are mutually exclusive. You can't have a system with a high degree of resolution and still have that "musicians are in your room" feeling, unless the recording itself allows for that. I don't seem to have many recordings that allow for both, though. Even then, the lushness is missing in the "higher resolving" cables.

Has anyone else struggled with this? If you found a way around this frustration, how did you do it?
Do not ask them to lie.
When I bring musicians into my room they tend to drink all my beer and keep me up all night. I had to learn the hard way, but now I just keep them in the room where the recording was made. That way I get a better night's sleep and spend less on beer.
two words- Sonus Faber
Plus thell be hittin on your wife!
My Denon receiver has a button for this, in the room / out of the room. Works every time
What your describing, is in my experience, more often than not, due to the recording rather than the gear. That is not to say that when playing the same recording in the same room with different gear, one doesn't hear the same differences. I aim to have a system that acurately portrays the recordings intent. Of course that requires a huge assumption as far as the recording engineers intent. Unless I'm a privy to better information, I generally assume that, for example; small intimate recordings like solo instrumental recordings aim to have the musician in my room, large symphonic and big band jazz recordings should put me in the recording venue and smaller jazz combos and classical recital recordings some where in between. Unfortunately, for better or worse, no matter how much time or money we spend on our gear, we are still at the mercy of the recording engineers, and maybe even worse, at often times at the mercy of our own assumptions as to the accuracy of our gear based upon the assumptions of the intent of the recordings.
Buy a cable switch box and use both => you can switch musicicans in and out of the room at will!

However, move quickly, as this new speaker cable property (in room/out of room) is soon to be patented by Monster Cable. Once this happens then everyone will be aware that said properties are real and exist and you may be limited in choice to licensed cable manufacturers. (As you may be aware, Monster have issued a cease and desist "letter" to Blue Jeans for "design infringement" on certain cable connectors.)

FYI: The USPTO has also granted a patent for an "anti-gravity spaceship". You may want to get into IP Law as you can probably have a lot of amusement and make money too!
You are experienceing IOS, better known as the In Out Syndrome. Cure is easy, go to Home Depot and buy 12 gauge cable. Works all the time. The money saved can be used to up grade from beer to jack daniels.
There is some really bad humor going on here.
Here or there.......?
I am confused....%&@k.
Listen to live music only and enjoy the venue if you system is resolved enough.
Let me guess, the in-room sound was with the Gabriel cables?? They are a false god and ultimately, fatiguing. Go for the at the venue sound. Just my opinion...
I don't agree and would be willing to wager that the cables in question by the original poster of this thread are not Gabriel Golds.The Gabriels are nothing close to fatigueing.The Raptures are incredible and even the discontinued Revelations are as involving and resolving as your source material and electronics will allow.The original Gabriel Gold Extreme were very warm and smooth and I could see where someone might find that sound fatigueing.I found them warm,forgiving and easy to listen to.
Maybe the poster will let us know what cables he's heard and is talking about.

"false god" I don't believe any manufacturer has ever claimed their cables to be "God Like"
Someday we'll all know what the Guy upstairs listens to.
Odds are he makes his own cables and electronics and unfortunately there is no distributor on earth at this time.
False because they are at first very impressive but become oppressive over time. YMMV, and Hiernote's obviously does.
Hey Kiwi what GG cables did you have to say such statemaents? You need to be more infomative about such claims. Have you heard all GG? If not then tell us what GG cable you had.

Don't go into hiding now.
I respect everyone's choice in electronics and cables as it comes down to personal prefererence and what one wants from their system.
I find that people are torn between two musical presentations and of course your mood comes into play prior to listening.

There is the the resolving "go in and listen for 10 minutes of a dynamic musical presentation" and say I've had enough WOW!
The other option is the "go in and listen long term and get lost in the music" even though this set-up may not contain all the macrodynamics and detail.

One option stimulates your mind with resolution and detail while the other option may be more euphoric and move your soul and and allow you to escape into the music.

With the Gabriel Raptures I use I have the option of both of these listening experiences by simply choosing the source material I want to hear.
That's one of the things I like most about them.
I'm not sure what cables the original poster is talking about but it sounds like he likes both scenarios the cables offer and only gets to experience both by switching one cable for the other.
One of the cables he describes sounds like the KCI which has a great sound to it.
maybe he'll let us know which is which ?
Good Day
BTW- what Gabriels have you heard?
"false god" I don't believe any manufacturer has ever claimed their cables to be "God Like"
Someday we'll all know what the Guy upstairs listens to.
Odds are he makes his own cables and electronics and unfortunately there is no distributor on earth at this time.

Does that mean He's not behind the Heaven's Gate cables???

Redkiwi, you've gone and done it now. You went and stuck your hand in the GG hornet's nest. You will soon be swarmed.....don't just walk away.....RUN!!! And head for water!!

FWIW, I don't care for the musicians in my room.

The Man upstairs listens to all LIVE music. No cables for Him.

Hey Kiwi where did you go. I bet it's all that SS stuff you have and when you hook it up to a GG then you get to here it as it is..............


You and Kiwi can both go for a swim. You make stupid comments and then check out.
The cables are not Gabriel. I specifically did not order a pair of the Golds because I knew the MkII are coming out soon, and wanted to see if the revision would improve upon that cable's noted (by its owners) slightly truncated soundstage. (I've read here that the Extremes were superior to the Golds in that regard, so I suspect that will be a key upgrade with the Mk II.)

The more resolving and faster cables are, indeed, the KCI Silkworm. The slower, more lush and seductive cables are the Jade Hybrids. I find both to be wonderful in my system, and haven't any stong criticism of either. Both are huge bang for the buck in my system and IMHO.

Nice to see humor still exists in the hobby. Nice posts, guys. :-)
Hi aggielaw> you should have taken a shot at the Gabriel Raptures IMHO they are in a far superior class than that of the KCI ,as they should be at twice the price and most likely will certainly better the Jade.The Revelation faired well and in most cases bettered both the cables you are auditioning and indeed are a very focused and resolving cable.
It may turn out be a wise move on your part to wait for the GG Revelation MK II but either way both the cables you got are "giant killers" and you can't go wrong either way.
Yikes! I need to make a correction: the Jade cables are the Vermeils, not the Hybrids.

Would love to try the Raptures and Vermeils, but first priority is an AC cord for my amp. I hope to audition those top-of-the-line interconnects later this year or early next, though!
04-24-08: Hiernote
Hi aggielaw> you should have taken a shot at the Gabriel Raptures IMHO they are in a far superior class than that of the KCI ,as they should be at twice the price and most likely will certainly better the Jade.

Huh??? Most likely will certainly better the Jade?? Is that English? What does that even mean???
Since Aggielaw clearly said that GG was not involved, there is no since beating this dead horse yet again.

Glory, perhaps you should try the decaf. :)

Haven't gone away, just sleeping - as you probably are now. Tried the Revelations and first blush was kinda impressive, but they became fatiguing and ultimately not as resolving of fine detail as the other cables I tried. The OP's description sounded so much like my experience with the Gabriels I mistakingly thought it must be them.

Nice to see there is so much support for the Gabriel cables and I regret slagging them and offending. Wasn't my intention.

I just didn't like them.

At least I tried them. Interesting how my system is being judged as deficient when you haven't heard it, is that how you got to like the Gabriels, by reading about them here?
me no speak english good like you know hear good
sounds like someone in the Pharmcuetical industry is doing more than he's selling.

Decaf? At least I think Glory can handle the caffiene.

go away
Hey Hiernote, you just don't get it. Your statement is like saying a BMW most likely will certainly better a Mercedes, a car that you've never seen or driven. How can this be? How can one thing probably/certainly beat anything that you haven't experienced? That's just naive or ignorant.

Steve is a nice guy, and I know some GG owners that are normal audiophiles. However, for some reason there are many GG owners that are right up there with Virtual Dynamics owners in their over-zealous nature. They get offended if anyone says anything negative about THEIR favorite cable. Grow up and realize that there is no one perfect cable for all people in all applications.

I have heard the GG Revelation and Extreme, and they are fine cables. However, I prefer cables from Jade and Stealth Audio. So someone like Hiernote, with his limited experience can say I don't hear good, and I'm on drugs......very mature.

Once again jmcgrogan enters a thread with his sarcasm makes his typical negative comments about everything and seems to be especially out to target Gabriel Gold yet calls Steve a nice guy yet probably does not even know him.
Assumes I have limited listening experiences with other cables and have not owned or heard Stealth,Jade or any other excellent cables.

Attacks both myself and another member with his favorite
expression in his vocabulary "grow up"
seems to love taking other members quotes and posting them.

Warns another member about the hornets nest yet he puts his hand in the behive.

In your own words "run"


Thanks for the info on the GG cable that didn't work out for you. Not all GG cables are "oppressive" as I have three Rapture's that are anything but oppressive. I had the Rev. and thought it was a very good cable with my Audio note 300B amp. It beat out a Kondo KSL LP and a Audio Niote Sogon.

I really could care less about a GG not working in one's system. I really don't nest with the GG hornets or live in their hive. I do nest in the Audio Niote hive and ........

With my gear the Rev. and Rapture cables are out standing cables and are not oppressive. In your system Kiwi they sucked, so be it.


I don't drink coffee =8^)
No meat, makes one's ears heavy + cancer attractor
No alcohol wherin excess
Only raw organic foods
Run 50 miles a week
Peacful marriage
All in all makes my ears to hear better.
Dear Hiernote,

I do not find John's treads to be filled with sarcasm. I think he brings alot to the table and I know the GG didn't work out for him. No big deal to me.

Keep on firing John.

Good day,
The OP has a "high class problem".

Personally I err toward total resolution and let my mood determine how I interpret the recordings. Some days I sit there and think, "I wish they'd used a used a different mic on Blanchard's trumpet" or "I wish the bass wasn't in such a small isolation room" or "I wish she'd move away from the mic just a little", while other days I just think, "Wow, what a performance!" or "Listen to the air around those bass strings" or "Her voice is so expressive, and beautiful, even at a whisper".

When your system resolves well, you have an option of how to interpret it. When the system leaves things out or smooths over details, then you can only interpret things one way.

Still, it's a personal choice and only the OP can answer for himself.


Very interesting. I hadn't thought of it (high resolution) that way. I think about the same kinds of things you mention, but I suppose I never thought of it as interpretation. That's something I'll chew on for a while.

I will never have enough time or money to hear all the components and cables I'd like to hear. Input from others is very important to me in determining what I'd like to audition next. Not to take sides, but John (JMcGrogan2) has been very kind in answering several posts and off-line emails on various issues for me. His input is always appreciated, as are the thoughts of all who care enough to contribute their experiences, perceptions, and opinions on this fascinating hobby.
Aggielaw lately I have EXACTLY the same thoughts with you!
I think the most accurate and interesting and to be the studio of the recording and not musicians in your room


Aggielaw, at least you've recognized that your needs can change from day-to-day and there are no absolutes. Adding to the confusion is that several of us with the same point of view might have several systems made up of totally different components.

Besides cultivating relationships here, you should really hunt for a dealer with a philosophy that jives with yours. They DO exist. Once you started a relationship, then the good dealers will let you borrow demos when you're considering a next step. I never would have spent $1800 on Analysis Plus speaker cables if my dealer, Soundings in Colorado, hadn't loaned me a thoroughly burned-in set.

Several components were auditioned in my system before purchase. Also, I'm now so familiar with my dealer's setup that I was entirely comfortable buying a $8800 Rowland Continuum amp yesterday before I heard it in my system. Still, I'm certain that it I hated it I could have taken it back.

Enjoy the music.