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A bit of an epiphany...with humble embarrassment

I have seen speaker placement mentioned numerous times here... with staging, imaging and that "sweet spot".  Reminding you all that I am that one with the Cerwin Vega D*8s.

In another forum built around Cerwin Vegas speakers. I  was trying to see why my right speaker didn't seem as full and detailed and "there" as the left speaker.  I wondered if the driver was bad ...etc, etc.  In a troubleshooting response, it was suggested that I move my speakers around...  So...I went on line and found a fascinating article simply about speaker placement.  No news to the group here.

https://www.aperionaudio.com/blogs/aperion-audio-blog/2-channel-stereo-speaker-placement

I did move the speakers and I have just experienced one of those moments that keep us in this hobby. It is one of the most basic of all actions dealing with speakers  Placement. The results were stunning.  All I needed to do was move the speakers away from the walls. I just brought them out more into the room and let the rear ports do what they were meant to do. The left has the rear ports pointed into a hall way/dining room area and the right is symmetrically about 4 feet 6 inches from the corner of the room. It seems that the less-bass-on-the-right-speaker issue is gone. I see that there is that elusive imaging / sound stage element that can come into play,

I feel both grateful and embarrassed with my epiphany. I had no idea how simple physics played into my set up. I have lots of pictures and carpeting and stuff' that aids in the sonics.

My next venture is to see if I can take the CV D8's and place them directly on the floor; they have the "pedestal".  I now have them on two matching end tables...about 16 inches off the floor. Since I live upstirs my concern is about the mighty D8's radiating the bass into the floor.

I thought the experienced audiophiles here would get a good chuckle out of my ignorant dilemma turned learned epiphany.  Now I do not feel as compelled to retire my CV D8's to the other room and scout out some Klipsch Heritage speakers...which are a dream...on my "Bucket List".

Thanks to all.

Sincerely,

I am...a newbie...

vinylspin
vinylspin
18 responses Add your response
mastering92
870 posts
 
Cool story bro.

Sounds like you’re being proactive. Good luck with your system.

Acoustic foam on the wall can help. Ideally, you want to avoid sound waves hitting solid surfaces and then dispersing in the air. Think of creating a barrier around them and/or not having anything in their way. The performance you experience will be unhampered or optimal.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
If you liked that, then this will totally blow your mind. Get some Nobsound springs, $30/set of 4. One set will be enough springs to make 2 sets. Simply use a 1/4" drill bit and some MDF. Put your speakers on these springs. Huge improvement. Also huge reduction in vibrations going into the floor, walls, etc. By far the biggest bang for the budget buck thing you can do for your speakers. 
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,404 posts
 
Acoustic foam on the wall can help.
Avoid acoustic foam. It dulls and distorts the sound. Try Dow Corning 703 instead.
corelli
941 posts
 
I recall the first time I did the very same thing.  It was a game changer for me and many of us. Welcome to the club!
james633
889 posts
 
Good to hear. Another thing to try that is free is toe in. Different angles of toe make a huge difference. Sometimes more than the difference between amps. 
m669326's avatar
m669326
326 posts
 
had a similar experience, as well. In my case one of the speakers seemed to be weaker in volume because of how the soundstage was skewed. But when I held a DBI app on my phone in front of each speaker, the loudness was actually the same. It turns out that a lot of tinkering with placement solved the problem. My speakers are now a little bit different distance from the rear walls, and a little bit different distance from the listening position in order to compensate for a weird room that is different in front of each one.
speakermaster
738 posts
 
If you put them on a few stones or bricks it will decouple them from the floor even more and you will get a much more clean sound from the lower midrange on down.
mikekollar's avatar
mikekollar
42 posts
 
I don’t have the same problems with walls and all in my fairly large listening room. My Legacy focus xd speakers sound perfect in my room..... or so I thought. This last week I put Dirac Live into my audio stream. This not only gave me a richer fuller sound but also balanced my sound stage, eliminating the previously undetected skew to the right that my room was obviously causing. In doing instant A/B (on/off) comparisons, the off setting had the presentations ounding a bit tinny compared to the new "on" position. It is amazing what your ears will accept as wonderful sound until you are able to noticeably change it. Check it out.... should eliminate all of the micro adjustments to speaker placement.
scchengmus
93 posts
 
I’m with @millercarbon on the Nobusound spring isolation solution. Those tweaks, plus speaker positioning with a tape ruler, will absolutely surprise you. Do not splurge on IsoAcoustics — overpriced and doesn’t work. 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
You're not the first to say that. All who have compared say Podiums are a lot better. Which for the price I would hope so! But the surprise is not that Townshend is a lot better than IsoAcoustics, but that Gaia is hardly any better than Nobsound. If at all. Haven't directly compared. Just looking at them I have my doubts. I would hope they are a little more neutral and easier to use. Nobsound take a fair bit of listening and tweaking to get just right. When you do though, wow, hard to find a better use for $35! For the difference in price you could put them under everything in your whole system for what one set of Gaia would cost, and that for sure would be way more improvement than the Gaia.

None of this however comes even close to the tape measure. What does a really good tape measure cost? $10? If that? With the tape you can set your speakers up absolutely symmetrical and equidistant, the single biggest improvement anyone can ever make and for the least amount by far! 
clearthinker's avatar
clearthinker
1,582 posts
 
Morning Miller.  Boing boing!
And sometimes the speakers need to be not quite symmetrical and equidistant to compensate for uneven room effects that cannot easily be corrected.

@speakermaster.    Stones or bricks.  NOW you're talking!
ticat's avatar
ticat
322 posts
 
Thank you for sharing this experience.
The fact that you had a positive experience with some simple experimentation IS the sort of thing that makes this hobby great.
I see some other helpful suggestions you may want to try forwarded by others. (Nice!)
Stay Real...Stay Safe
docknow
302 posts
 
I agree with millercarbon about the tape measure, and even take it to the next level with my Martin-Logan CLXs.  I use a Leica Disto Laser tape measure and a Savage SVT200 Digital Level.  No going back after you have used tools like these.
jerkface
73 posts
 
I thought the experienced audiophiles here would get a good chuckle out of my ignorant dilemma turned learned epiphany. Now I do not feel as compelled to retire my CV D8's to the other room and scout out some Klipsch Heritage speakers...which are a dream...on my "Bucket List".

One thing you will discover, should your journey take you to Heritage-land, is that the sweet spot with Khorns, LaScalas, and Belles is positively HUGE compared to most other speakers, because of the dispersion horns.  

redwoodaudio
413 posts
 
No need to poison the guy to isoacoustics products. They are great for speakers and components.  And OP, congrats and thanks for sharing.
lucky_doggg7
115 posts
 
Nice job Vinylspin.  Big floor standing speakers, like you say, need to be moved away from the wall.  The bigger (the speaker), the more distance the speaker needs.  As the saying goes, the room is the "third" speaker box.  
thosb's avatar
thosb
204 posts
 
Free improvement to SQ - a great thing!  I remember when I got a new chair and couldn't figure out what wasn't quite right, took a while but when I realized my ears were a few inches further off the the ground and adjusted speaker height to compensate and WOW - surprising how even small changes can have big impact.
buellrider97
365 posts
 
    I was in your position with my JBL 4312A’s about 15 years ago . I tried footers and pedestals, and played with placement. So I took into consideration how high I wanted my tweeters in relation to my ears while sitting on my couch . I then took the height measurement and ordered a pair of three post stands from Sound Anchor . I have heavy shag carpet and the spikes penetrated the carpet with a push and rest firmly on the cement slab . I then just ran the Blue pads was totally satisfied. Later on I tried a few different pairs of speakers on the stands . During this experiment I tried wood and marble on top of the stands in order to use speakers of a different width and depth , including bookshelf speakers. Today the JBL’s are out of the rotation and are packed away with the stands in the closet . Down the road I plan on a second “ Retro “ system with a TT and a vintage receiver or tubes . Happy Listening, Mike . 
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