Stillpoints Aperture or Synergistic UEF panels Which one?


Stillpoints Aperture or Synergistic UEF panels Which one?
Both of these products have received rave reviews. The Stillpoints appear to be 4 times the cost of that of the Synergistic Research.

Currently, I am using some convoluted foam panels at the first and second reflection points and I also have many of the Synergistic HFT's through out the room. I also have ASC bass traps in all 4 corners.

I just tried a SR HFT in the center of the acoustic convoluted form panel and son of a gun it did lock in the soundstage. So, now I would like to pursue further with trying either one of these panels.

I have read somewhere that the SR HFT's do not work well with the SR UEF panels, which to me seems strange.

Any opinions would be appreciated.

ozzy
ozzy
I have several sets of HFTs on the walls, and complete speaker kits, plus ECT and PHT. All very effective. I tend to experiment and try different things, essentially tweaking my tweaks, and was impressed to find all Ted's placement recommendations very effective. One time I put an ECT on the projector, noticed absolutely no improvement. Which seemed odd. Until I looked and saw his guideline to put it on the sending end. So I moved it to the sending end and sure enough, works great there!

So if SR says does not work well with, I would believe them as odds are they are right. But I would give them a call- SR not the retailer- and ask. Because Ted is serious about good sound and if there's a better option he would know.

Other than that if you don't have HFT speaker kits that's the obvious one to do next.
.
Thanks millercarbon for your reply.

I had many of the HFT's on my speakers along with the PPT Omega Mat +.
 I just completed cleaning/buffing my speakers to a high gloss shine and now prefer not to stick anything to me them again.

ozzy
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ebm, Thanks.
Do you have the version 1 or 2?
By chance would you also be using the HFT's?

ozzy
Ozzy,
I had Mats on the outside of my speakers. Sounded great but couldn’t stand the look. Removed the drivers, cut Mats up, put them inside. One little 1/2" wide strip of Mat taped along internal wires is awesome. Or near the crossover. Also wrapped some around the speaker magnet, held on with a zip tie. Put fo.Q tape on speaker baskets. Paint internal wires and fo.Q tape with TC. Coated crossover with TC. Do all this stuff it is like a major major upgrade. You know what a Mat can do, well this is even better. This is putting it right in the places where it can do the most good. Same amount of Mat, you’re not changing that, just putting it ten times closer to the fields so it works even better. And it doesn’t mess up the look of your speakers!

Also nice system. Maybe its the photo's but it looks like you have the same HFTs all over the speakers. The Speaker Kit uses different versions of HFT for different locations on the speaker. They're definitely tuned for the different applications. Do you have Speaker Kits or just HFT on them?
I've never used any Synergistic products but use 4 Stillpoints Apertures behind the listening position.  They are wonderful!  They don't make the room too dead or too reflective...just right.  I have had them for 4 years so not sure which version they are.  They are expensive but my dealer gave me a great price on them.  Good luck
millercarbon,

I only had the HFT’s versions on the speakers and they did add a quality. I just don’t want to stick them back on again. I can’t see any good way to get inside my speaker cabinets but I’m sure that is the best way to get the full affects of the mat and the PPT stuff. Like the idea of the fo.Q inside too!

BTW, I placed a call to Synergistic but due to the virus they are all in a sort of hibernation state and had no idea when someone could get back to me.

ozzy
I've only used Apertures and love them. Afraid to contribute more as the OP may take the thread down once he obtained what he wants from it.
Ron17,
Interesting you are using them behind you only?
I have a 85" Samsung TV between the speakers which would make placing a panel in the center difficult. I have managed to place some of the SR HFT's behind the TV though.

ozzy
slaw,
Thank you. How many do you have?
BTW, there were reasons why I removed the DIY Entreq box thread (if that's what you are referring to).

ozzy
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Thanks ebm,
I'll see if I can get a pair to trial.

ozzy
HFTs are not even close to the performance of Apertures

At a fraction of the price, I would hope not! lol!

Now why am I not surprised your statement is so misleading???

Maybe someone who has both- and is a credible source- would care to comment on their relative value?
@ozzy,

I have a wall 2' behind the listening position and was having decay time problems at certain frequencies. I first tried large absorbing panels on the wall but it just killed the sound...they sucked all of the midrange and top end out of the music. My dealer uses Apertures behind his listening position and suggested I try them. I bought 2 at first and really loved what they did to the sound so I bought 2 more. Now the midrange and top end are back and detailed and no more reverberation time problems. They don't do much for bass below 100hz but really work for midrange and top end frequencies. I would like to be able to place (2) deep center stage between the speakers but I would have to buy a stand to hold them at the right position.....still thinking about that.
Thanks millercarbon and ron17 for that information.

I will be getting a trial Stillpoints pair soon. It will be interesting to see if they play well with all the SR HFT’s I have in the room.

I do have some large ASC bass tube traps in the corners. But again, with my giant TV I am limited and not able to place a panel in the front center.

ozzy
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I also have (4) 16" ASC tube traps in corners behind my speakers.  They work so well with the Apertures and control a different area of the frequency....I would never sell my ASC tube traps.
ebm,
Wow, that's something that is hard to believe. Can I place the Aperatures behind the speakers?


Ron17,
That's good to know. I have some very tall 20"ers in the corners that at this point I would like to keep.
Hopefully I will have my Stillpoint trial units this Friday.

ozzy
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ebm, Thanks.
I suppose that is true about everything. So how do you have the 6 configured?

ozzy
Please keep us informed when they arrive. I'm curious for sure
What about GIK Acoustics ? They offer free advise via a form you fill in on their website. Their panels have really sorted out my room and all 8 for less than 500 USD i purchased B Stock from their eBay shop.

I am really happy with the results!

https://gikacoustics.co.uk/acoustic-advice/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbQEBVDAY74

An acoustic curtain works well on TV aka reflector - there is custom vendor for this in CA
Vendor is Quiet Curtains in Escondido, California 
morningstaraudio,

I will it looks like the Fed Ex tracking has changed to Saturday.

ozzy
select-hifi,

I have considered the GIK. Its just that the SR and Stillpoints are claimed to go beyond just reflection/absorption panels.


ozzy
tomic601,

Not sure what you are referring to. Can you provide a link?

ozzy
Ozzy, I have tried both the panels and HFT's - I went with the panels and the UEF dots - I put them on walls - listened for a few days, took them off and listened again...they went back in immediately - couldn't listen without...I think you will like them - I have 8 panels and 10 dots. BTW - I really like the PPT product as well - which I know you also like. The sound opens up, soundstage increases, walls 'get out of the way more' - more air, space - but its warm, i.e. musical / natural - - its not over hyped detail. BTW, I have done the listen first, take down, listen again test with audiophile friends and they can't believe it...the difference is noticeable...there first response is 'what happened'? Where did the music go? 

wisper,
Thanks so much for providing your actual experience. It really helps.
Did you try the SR panels with the HFT's?

BTW, Fed Ex missed the Friday then Saturday delivery dates. Now the tracking shows its out for delivery today (Sunday) but I just don't believe that now either. 
The Post Office seems equally hit and miss.

ozzy
I had the HFT's originally then teamed with an ATM Atmosphere. While I really like most, if not all of synergistic research stuff, for me anyway, it was a little hi-fi for me - I sent the ATM back - and the standard HFT's - now, in fairness, this was before they came out with the 'warmer' hft 2.0 - which may have been in SR's response to some folks having this 'reaction' -  so perhaps these are great now - which knowing SR they probably are - 

I prefer a warmer, more natural presentation - detail for sure, but there is that fine line between detail and 'tipped' up, if you know what I mean...it's a quest! I will say this, the PPT stuff is very balanced and works as advertised. 

At any rate, I then tried the panels - with the dots and for me, it was a great combo - 8 panels and 10 + dots - I thought about 12 panels and I may add 4 more, but for now I really like what 8 do - I  know that the dealer I bought them from had a generous return policy -  The panels hang by a very small nail, so if you remove them, it's very unnoticeable...they also have a temporary 'tack' type stuff to avoid the nail...they have the same 'tack' for the UEF dots...I think it's best to combine the panels and dots? Best to talk with a rep - I know Alfred is super to deal with. You can try them and send back if they don't do it for you. 
wisper,
Thanks for your update. I have about 30 HFT's. So I hope that the SR products will work with them. I can't remember where but I recall seeing that the HFT's do not work well with the SR panels. Perhaps that's why they came out with the dots.
I tried contacting Alfred and SR to no avail. SR rep said someone would get back to me. That was before I started this thread, must be due to the virus?

ozzy
It looks like on the SR website it is compatible with everything but the original HFT? It's on the compatibility page for acoustics. Bummer - Alfred is usually pretty good at responding. 
Ozzy, how are the speaker hft's from SR?  these have been on my list to try -  want to make sure that it still stays warm and musical - and doesn't get too 'dry' if you know what I mean? 
Thanks wisper,

I only have the original HFT's and my DIY versions. A lot of them in fact. Wonder why they are not compatible?

The Fed Ex man just now finally delivered the Stillpoints for my trial. So we shall see what the fuss is about. Much more expensive than the SR, but perhaps my HFT's will work magic with them?

ozzy
So I was able to talk to Betty from High End Audio. She said the reason that the SR panels and the HFT's don't play well together is because the HFT's vibrate and enhance the soundstage, while the panels absorb. Sort of like each is fighting the other.

Well, I have been using the Stillpoints at the first reflection point and I can tell right away that there is a better vocal presentation, more realistic if you will. Not sure but I think the bass has diminished. I need to listen more before any conclusion. BTW, I am using them with my HFT's.

ozzy
I have been so impressed with the Stillpoints Aperture ll's that I went ahead an ordered a pair. The soundstage is not only clearer, but even deeper and wider. 
Hard to believe, I thought that I had already achieved the best I could with my equipment and room. I guess someday I will purchase a few more.

Question for those who own them:
How high should they be placed? Ear level? Covering the mid and tweeter? I am using a chair to experiment with the demos now.

Thank you all for the help.

ozzy
Interesting that the panels absorb - hmmm...it seems to me it creates more air space, more alive sound, but musical nonetheless...oh, well - bummer they don't work with the HFT originals...
Yeah, it would have been worth at least a trial with my HFT's but I wasn't able to set it up.

ozzy
Just received my (2) Stillpoints panels that I purchased. They are in a black frame with black grill cloth, looks real nice.

I’m going to take the opportunity while still having the 2 demo panels to experiment. The blacks ones are at first reflection with the bottom of the panel at the bottom of the tweeter. Which seems to sound the best thus far. (My Sopra 2’s have the tweeter below the midrange). At this moment I placed the demo units under my black ones.

I still have some black convoluted foam at the second reflection, and ASC bass/tube traps in the corners from floor to ceiling.
Is 4 better than 2? We shall see.


ozzy
Just ordered an additional 2 more Apertures. What surprised me the most when I tried 4 of them was how much bass clarity and depth they provided.
Expensive yes, but do they work well!

ozzy
Now that I have the 4 Stillpoints Apertures placed. (I have 2 on the left and 2 on the right at first reflection), there are noticeable improvemnts in very familiar recordings.

Example:
"Green River" by CCR in 24/192hz I must have played this song zillions of times.
I now can clearly hear Tom Fogerty playing rhythm guitar in the center channel. Before the Stillpoints it was barley perceptible.

ozzy
Ozzy,
 So you stacked them on top of one another making a 4 foot long one? 
morningstaraudio,

yes,
I experimented  with them in so many different ways. Stillpoints also said to cover the drivers which ended up requiring a total of 4 of them. 
Plus, I still have 20" round ASC tube traps in the corners.

ozzy
4 months ago I ordered 4 Stillpoints Aperture 2 panels from Music Direct since they offer 60 days returned to try out if they would do anything for my untreated listening room in my basement. Like you I experienced the placement all over my room and so far I have found my room sounded best when I placed 2 panels right in the middle of the back wall,death centered between the speakers, the top panel about 5” above the high of my floor speakers and the 2nd panel right underneath it (vertical). The other 2 Panels I placed each of them on first reflection points (on the custom wood stand I made same highs with my speakers) I probably need to order 2 more panels for first reflection points for your set up. They are a little expensive for Their size but the result is mind blowing Improvement for my room soundstage.
monoblocknova,
Thank you for your posting. Behind my listening spot I built a huge CD rack that holds about 6000 cd's. It is about 15 feet long and about 6 feet tall. I'm thinking that this rack provides the scatter effect. 
But, now you got me thinking....

I can't believe how much Stillpoints wants for the panel racks. Great thing you were able to make a DIY panel holder. 
I ended installing mine on the wall about 14" off the ground with one on top of the other covering about 44".
I think you can see it on my systems page.


ozzy
Since my back wall behind the speakers was just a blank finished drywall so I had some fun with difference placement .first I put them on chairs ,wood block, 3M table on the almost everywhere on the walls,corners of the room but when I placed them Vertical dead centered on the back wall 2 panels , that where they are going to be for good . My audiophile buddy came over to help me out with the experiment project because it good to have somebody with a little passion to help out . We were shocked how much difference when we were moving them around and we were both agreed when the 2 panels centered on the back wall bring the most improvement by a big margin.
Glad to hear you found the best spot.

I would like to add that with the Apertures the HFT's on the speakers are not necessary. In fact, it sounds more natural without them.

ozzy
Im glad you realized Apertures are the best HFT basically a bad joke.They may change the sound but not for the better.Enjoy!!