hey jay have you checked out http://www.high-endaudio.com/ yet? it's arthur salvatore's site that people have been talking about under the thread 'reviewing the reviewers.' his store (high end audio) sells the cables (coincident) and he recommends them highly - not particularly persuasive in itselt- but if you read his audio critique site first i think you'll find his comments genuine. he goes into detail on the coincident cables and it's definitely worth a read if you're considering them.
I've owned both Harmonic tech and Coincident CST's, there is no contest, go with the Coincident!
Kublakhan, it's funny you mention it. I just went to that site & did a lot of reading today, so it's good that you started that new thread, thanks! Yeah, whereas HT seems to get some great reports, but also I've heard others say how it depends on the system, I've never heard anybody 'dissing' the CST's, which is exactly what Kevin @ Upscale said to me a while back. I've come to respect his opinion a lot, and am now leaning towards the Coincidents, especially when I read things like the above post by Audiojudge. I'll be finalizing my decision with the nexgt month, and will let you know.
Hey Audiojudge: Do you have single runs or biwire? Just curious, thanks, Jay in the jungle...
I just ordered a pair of Coincident interconnects based on all buzz about them around here. But I have used HT interconnects and speaker cables in various places in my system over the past couple of years and through many system changes. They are excellent and, in my experience, less system dependent than some other cables. They may not be your cup of meat, but they are very good and clearly a good value. If the Coincidents are as good, they will be an even better value.
The more I play with good cables, the more I come to feel that none is necessarily better than another, they're just different. People talk about one cable stompng all over another, or a lesser cable running from the room in embarrassment, or whatever. I've never found this to be the case. For the most part, they are just different. Which is why I have such a hard time getting rid of the little buggers, the good ones, even if they are not in the system at the moment.
Jay, I have two single runs of CST speaker cables and a few pairs of the CST interconnects. The Harmonic Tech stuff is VERY good, don't get me wrong here, but is quite system dependant I have found in comparison. Unfortunately, Coincident does not do the "try before you buy" thing right from the Coincident facility, but a competant dealer like Kevin Deal with fill in the blanks.
I was actually invited to Mr. Israel Blumes home in Ontario Canada and told to bring along my best cable wares!. Mr. Blume is very much a people person, similar to Steve McCormack of McCormack amplifiers, or Pat McGinty of Meadowlark.
Well, I took him up on his gracious invite and heard for myself several comparisons involving some pretty expensive and heavy hitters cable in the industry. The Coincident just sounded "more right, more times" than the others, some costing 5 times more!!!
We had some tea, shared some ideas, showed me some cables, speakers, amps he was toying with for fun, a real interesting man who isn't afraid to "play in the same sandbox" with his customers.....Then again, Jim Wang of HT is also this way, and the HT stuff, in the right system ,can and does sound very nice....
For me however, there was little contest, I bought some before leaving!
Over the last 18 months i have had Audioquest Midnight,Opal,Quartz,Jps Supeconductors + Alphacore MI-2 and saphire,Wireworld Gold Eclipse III,Nordsot Quatro Fil after much searching i setteled on the Coincident.They where both IC and Speaker cable the best cables i have ever heard.
This is a cable i can live with forever.Its nice not to have to worry about cable upgrades anymore.
khaki8 i think you are in the wrong thread. you're looking for one of the many 'ultimate power cord' threads.
Sound like an ad to me. What do you think it sounds like?
audiojudge did you get a chance to check out his (coincident) speakers? any thoughts? which models did you listen to? which amp did he have running them? what was his setup like...details, man, details.
I wonder what ever happened with the absolute powercord deal. I asked Agon about the two cord pimps that showed up in those threads (and lets not forget repeatedly bashed our really good friend and super-great cool-guy chstob) and they said "they were still looking into it." That was two weeks after all the B.S. and just after the absolute guys put up their new ad.
Could it be that Agon has specifically avoided disclosing to me their findings due to a conflict of interest? Salvatore has got me so jaded I can't help but wonder. Further, I wonder how much that ad costs? Agon knows the answers to all these questions.
But I agree this thread is nothing like those threads were. More on the coincidents please.
OK, Now I'm spooked! (hold flashlight under chin for this) Maybe the powercord pimps and hellskeltermusic conspired to have chstob murdered for all his meddling, the poor bastard.
Jeeze, I just asked an innocent question... All of a sudden my thread is deep in the midst of a vast conspiracy. Who'd a thunk it. BTW, I think I'll stick with my Coincident power cords. I like 'em, and why rock the boat... I had no idea Audiogon had a dark side! Echelon is watching... J
For those who may be interested,my reference system ,which is used primarily for musically enjoyment and speaker and component evaluation consists of :
La Platine Verdier Turntable with a JMW - 12 tonearm and a Shelter 901 cartridge.
The preamp is a Audion Premier Quattro, a very limited ,hand made unit by David Chessel ,the designer of Audion.It is true dual mono ,meaning there are 4 chassis.
The amplifiers range from Manley Neo 300Bs full range to a biamp set up using heavily modified Golden Tube Audio 300B monos with a totally rebuilt pair of Altec 1570Bs powering the woofers of the Total Eclipses.
Different amplifiers of interest consistently find their way into the system.
My main listening room was specifically constructed as an audio reference tool.The walls and floor are poured concrete.Dimensions are 40' x 26' with all corners being rounded to avoid any standing waves.The room is virtually perfectly flat in frequency response from 20hz -20khz.Electricity consists of 5 dedicated,20 amp circuits, wired with OFC 10AWG wire.
In order to accurately assess the performance of my speakers and accompanying components,it is critically important that my reference room be as neutral as possible.
Oops.Forgot about the digital front end.It is a Melos CDT II transport with matching CDD II tube DAC.I extensively modified the latter with audiophile grade caps and replaced the standard wire with Coincident CST IC.
iblume, did you get salvatore to do your golden tubes?
can you comment on the shelter 901 for those of us intrigued by it?
i've been looking around for and audio quattro or dual for a while now with absolutely NO luck at all. do you have any ideas?
thanks in advance!
Just the opposite with regards to Salvatore and the Golden Tube.
The Shelter 901 is the finest cartridge I have heard.All the detail and transparency of the Helikon but more harmonically complete and superior retrieval of low level detail.Available direct from Japan for $1300 US.
As for the Audion ,call David Chessell at 011-44-1903 750 755.
Well, I did it! I ordered the Coincidents today. Thanks everyone for the help/info. And thank you Iblume. Looking forward to it. Do you guys realize that this is my FINAL UPGRADE? Yup, I'm all done. It's 'happily ever after' from now on. Jay
Um, yeah, that's a joke. But it is a bit of a milestone for me to be completely done with my previous system. Maybe I can sit back for a short time and enjoy things the way they are. here's hoping, Jay
alright. just checking to make sure you were still down. we're all in this together jay. anytime we lose someone it makes us question our sanity and in this hobby that's not a good thing. if you ever have the feeling like you're done, like you want out...call me. if i'm not home, call thunders or detlof or whomever. we're all here for you.
Thanks K, it's good to know. Actually, in time, my next upgrade will probably be all those well-placed absorptive women around my cement room. It could very well be the most expensive uppgrade yet, perhaps the most fulfilling, defintely the most dangerous.
I support you jay. And if you ever can't get in touch with your dealer, mine are on call 24/7. They sell very nice high quality stuff; new shipments of exotic all the time. You just let me know and I'll see to it you get whatever fix you need.
Wow! I got the Coincidents. Oh yeah. Beautiful wires, nicely put together, big thick spades, top notch. Anyway, 'right out of the box' as they say, they are better than my DH Labs T14, (which kept me happy for a long time, until I got better equipment where I'd hear the difference). Yup, better soundstage, dynamics, my speakers are disappearing even more now. I love it. I so look forward to hearing the sound improve over the next couple hundred hours too. Like I said, it's happily ever after from here on ;-)
jay, thanks for the update. did you get the powercords too?
Yeah I've had the CST power cords for a couple months now. One on the Cary CD303 and one on the sli80. I was amazed at how they really did improve things, but it took time! I had forgotten about them after a while, but then couldn't figure out why the sound was getting better by the week, it was great. I also plug them into a Chang 6400, which helps sonically too- but my case may be an extreme one- I have very poor, dirty, unreliable power where I live, AND there are 4 fridges, probably ~20 ceiling fans, and 12 AC units in the house I live in, so the Chang probably cleans things up a little. I'm hoping now I'll stay happy for a while and reign in my tweak fetish, maybe stick to tube rolling for a while, upgrade my CD collection.
jay, what cables were you replacing with the cst and what interconnects are you using? sorry for all the questions but i'm thinking of jumping into coincident all the way around and am collecting info.
thanks for the info.
Hi Kublakhan, I have the Total Ref. speaker cable and the IC along with the Total Eclipse speakers. I am breaking in and will be comparing wire from 47 labs OTA kit. The new Total Ref. speaker cable is much better than the original Coincident speaker cable. It is around a $1100 for an 8ft pair. I also use the FIM Gold speaker cable. While the FIM costs 4 x that of the Total Ref. it holds it's own in comparison. These two cables are night and day in there sound. I wish I could combine the srengths of both. I am not sure you can do better than Coincident for the Money. The OTA kit may change my mind. If you are interested, I will let you know how the OTA performs against the Coincident TR. and the IC. Check out what Redkiwi, Dekay and Caterham1700 have to say about the OTA kit. Redkiwi also uses the Coincident IC or used to. I believe you live in So Cal. If you do not need to bi-wire and 8ft of cable is long enough, I could loan you the TR speaker cable for a week or two.
I wish you lived near me, in MI , I would love to have you comapare my JPS SC2 speaker cable with the Total Reference Series Speaker Cable.
Khan, I can't offer too much help. My experience is quite limited, due to location, I'm stranded on a tiny rock out in the South Atlantic with no audio salons nearby, I'm lucky to find decent beer, let alone cables. I was replacing an inferior cable, the old silver sonic T-14. But I also have on loan a set of Monster Sigma's, (~$2,000), and I like the Coincidents better, the Sigma's were too bright for me. I can only say that the power cords and the speaker wire seem to be a great value. They'll be staying in my system for a looooooong time, probably until I find a used set of the Total Reference for a good price here on Agon. You can't go wrong. I have yet to hear one person complain about the CST stuff. My interconnects are HT Pro silway II, which sound fine to me.
brulee that is an amazing and generous offer you made! unfortuntately 8 feet wouldn't be enough for me. i could move my gear but i think i'm going to upgrade my powercords and interconnects first anyway. but again, thank you for the offer. this is what i love about audiogon. where are you in so. cal?
and thanks, jay for summing up.
brianmgrcom,I have had the JPS SC2 in my system along with Audioquest Midnight,Alpha-Core MI2,DH Labs T-14. The Coincident speaker cable has been the best I have tried so far.My wife has very good ears and when it comes time to make the final decision i get her to listen to see if she confirms what I hear.In all cases she liked the Coincident best . Nothing has bettered it.
Leafs, does the Coincident Total Reference Series come in bi-wire? JPS SC2 does not, you have to use jumpers, Joe makes SC2 jumpers also.
Do you remember the difference between the JPS SC2 and Coincident TR?
I use the CST 1 Speaker cable not the new TRS.You should email Israel about the biwire.I know he is not a beliver in the benifits of Biwire.
The CST 1 is what I compared to the JPS SC2.Better bottom end better pin pointing of instruments in the soundstage.My wife has a simple way of explaing why one cable is better than another.I ask her why one over the other.Her response "it sounds better" how can you argue with that.
I've also heard that Mr Blume is not a fan of biwiring. ALthough, the CST1 does come in biwire as an option. My set is a 10' biwire, not sure about the TRS.
As to bi-wiring, I do not know if a speaker sounds any better by a company making their speaker bi- or tri-wire. BUT, I feel if they designed it bi- or tri-wire it will perform better when used that way versus jumpers.
Leafs, I would like to hear the Coincident CST vs. the JPS SC2, I struggle to believe the Coincident sounds better, but I haven't had the benefits of both as you. Maybe sometime I'll get that chance, if so I'll comment.
In the Cable thread "Is 500 hours of break in really nec.?", I comment on a comparison between the Concident IC and JPS IC.
Does anyone care to comment on how they sound? Warm, cool, neutral, bright, mellow, something, anything. Brulee says night and day difference as compared to the FIM. Please, for the sake of Pete, and the love of God, say more.
oh, a description? oh yeah, sorry. They sound great! :-) But seriously, I'd have to say neutral, clear, open, dynamic. I get much better imaging too, my speakers have finally completely disappeared. Maybe nobody has bothered to describe them with the usual 'tinted' words because they really don't color things to either side of the usual polarized parameters we all talk about. They will be in my system longer than anything, I know, maybe forever,- which in the audiophile dictionary means at least a few years.
The TRS speaker cable can be offered biwired.The cable will then be internally configured so that half will be separated for highs /mids and the other half for bass.
With Coincident speakers( where all the crossover sections-high pass ,low pass etc.are completely separated and isolated from one another and are all individually run to the binding posts as opposed to being interconnected between sections and wiring all the hots and grounds and then connecting them to the binding post)biwiring offers no sonic benefit and may actually involve a sonic degradation due to the speaker cable used.Coincident only recommends biwiring when a customer has the intention of biamping his speakers.
We therefore ,recommend using our TRS jumper cables and using the TRS in a non biwire set up for better results.
Thanks Iblume! The bi-/tri-wiring I have done in the past was: 1) I used two sets of speaker cables. 2) My previous speakers were Linn AV-5140, designed with a tri-wire setup. I first used Linn's K-400 wire which has two separate runs within each wire for bi-wiring, and used their jumper plate for the third post. I later went to their K-600 which has three separate runs within each cable for tri-wiring.
I still have this old Linn wire but I can't really "play/compare" with it on my new amp as it doesn't accept bananna plugs.
I just replaced my HT Pro Silways MKII's with Coincident IC's and the difference is huge. I hate to knock another cable because I know it is so system dependent. My current system is all Electrocompaniet (EMC1, 4.6 Pre-amp, AW120 Amp). I have Purist audio maximus between my amp and pre and HT Pro 9's for my speakers.
The Coincident sounded better out of the box than the existing HT Pro Silways in my system. The bass became tighter, vocals fleshed out...blah blah blah. Bottom line is it sounds alot better and makes listening to my system alot more enjoyable.
Thanks to Mr. Blume for producing a well voiced product with tangible improvements at a competative price point. I would very much like to hear your speakers as well. If they are anything like your cables they must be outstanding.
My comments relate to the Coincident interconnects.
I use both HT, Truth Link (their copper interconnect which tends to get overlooked) and Coincident CST I interconnects. Overall, I prefer the Coincident CST. The HT still does better in its front-to-back layering and has a kind of see-around-the-musician quality that the CST can't quite seem to match.
BUT, as so many people have discussed here, the CST IC's present the music with a sense of rightness as if the music is coming from a coherent whole, same cut of cloth, etc. This is so true in my experience. The HT Truth Link--I much prefer it to HT's silver/copper combo, ProSilway--is perhaps a little more detailed and perhaps fleshes out the back of the sound stage, rear and side hall wall reflections, etc. But who cares? The CST does something that makes music a joy to listen to. It just sounds right.
Curiously, some have found the Coincident CST to be brutally honest--as in not rich and romantic or softening out the rough edges in bad recording, etc. I find them to be plenty rich and full sounding. And I don't intend that "rich and full" in the pejorative "colored" sense by any means.
My CST interconnects took 600 hours to sound like they were out-performing the HT. And out perform the HT they do. Based on this experience, I may look into replacing my HT Pro9 Plus speaker cables with Coincident speaker cable, too.
I cant expalin why the Coincident take so long to breakin but they do.It is worth the wait to let them develop.My system keeps sounding better all the time.If one has the patience to live with these for the required break in time they will be rewarded.Patience is a virtue.