Somewhere I should mention that I am using the OmmiMic DVD to help me. In addition to doing basic frequency response charting, I used it to precisely configure the relative speaker distance which was oddly quite wrong in the Anthem settings. I mean, of course I started by measuring distances with a ruler and put that in with half-foot accuracy but the timings were not correct for the surrounds vs. the front channels. Off by a good two feet or so ( i.e. 2 mSec). When you introduce DSP to one channel but not others like I do by using it in the Center and Sub only you also have to deal with extra delays in processing there.
Of course in a motion picture auditorium, there is only 1 seat in the house where you achieve such absolute precision in arrival times, but hey, audiophiles are nothing if not fussy.
Using a combination of the OmniMic DVD and miniDSP’s very precise delay settings I was able to get perfect delay matching.
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I have updated my virtual system with a current image. Room is still a mess, and the final GIK Acoustic components are not in but it sounds really good. :)
I spent the weekend binging Sci Fi shows I have been putting off as well as catching up on Marvel Universe flicks. The sound is large and super smooth but the imaging is not very detailed. Waiting on the GIK diffusors before going nuts with that.
Honestly though the room looks very stark. It feels great when the lights are dimmed and the curtains drawn I feel like I am in a theater, but it's really not looking great as a living room.
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System update:
Still boxed. Basically waiting on the flooring guys to come in before I really start to re-assemble it. In the mean time, I have new porch steps.
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Tim,
My family fortune going into acoustic panels and air bearing chairs so the reverberation of my buttocks does not interfere with the palladium cable lifters is NOT EXCESSIVE!!
Erik
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A week after moving in, I have installed a whole-house surge suppressor. Siemens has a hard to find unit called "BoldShield" which are in panel protectors. $150 at HD or Lowe's currently. I learned two things: - Surge suppressors are required as of NEC 2020, including remodeling work.
- You can use multiple BoltShields, to give protection across ground AND neutral and increase the current protection before it's completely disabled. This seems like expensive excess to me.
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3 1/2 hours later and I have 3 ports in the house enabled. Only took a punch down tool and Ethernet test kit.
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Before buying this house I got really excited that most of the rooms had 2 Ethernet jacks. Fabulous! No more dropped streaming signals! No more competing with Wifi with the neighbors! I was ready for 1 GigE to all my Roku streaming devices!
Well, not so fast...
Turns out the data panel in the closet is a straight pass through with no jacks. That is, it's a set of eight punch down terminals, all wired to each other. That means I can't use more than 2 devices at a time in the whole house.
OK, replaced the data panel with an 8 gang punch down to female RJ45.
Now I can use an Ethernet switch and light them all up with independent data paths, but wait! The wiring at the wall is all wrong, so I get to punch those down again. Sigh.
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BTW, I have updated my virtual system to include the latest recommendations from GIK.
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I wouldn't quite call it a catastrophe!
I'm quite fortunate in many regards here. It just has a number of issues which need to be prioritized, and with this being a very wet state, I need to take care of everything related to water infiltration ASAP.
I still got a good enough bargain in this house that this is all worthwhile. Fortunately I know a little bit about electricity and screws to do some of it on my own.
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Well people, I have arrived, and my dreams of ordering all that fancy room treatment are on hold for right now.
There was a mixup between the movers and the floor refinishers, so I can't really unpack the living room until that is done. The house went from 3 toilets to 1/2 over night, the porch steps need to be rebuilt, gutters installed, sump hose must be attached, and a car must be procured.
The closest thing I have right now to working hifi gear is my television.
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I make my own speakers, Dutchy, I'm not about to go buying. :)
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Mike's suggestions are quite reasonable. I think his entire room treatment runs around $2,500. About the price of a really decent DAC.
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I just got a couple of e-mails from Mike at GIK.
He had a number of suggestions I'm probably going to incorporate.
For the ceiling, he's recommending 4 x 4" thick panels, vs my original 3 x 2" thick. He's recommending 6" thick Impression series bass traps and diffusion for the rear, along with similar for the front.
Interestingly, he's kind of replacing lack of surface area with thicker panels. Mike also recommended standing Impression series panels in the front under the windows. I have been desperately trying to avoid blocking any windows, so these are the units I'm still unsure about.
While packing this past weekend I had to remove my beloved 2" thick panels from around the room, and I have to say that how obvious the difference was in the room. Not just was the room more sibilant but it practically buzzed.
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I have um, 3 different calibrated microphones, 4 when I can find the little one, 2 sets of measurement software and speaker / device impedance measurement tools. I think I'm good there! :)
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Hi @ebm
Please send me your bank routing number so I can do justice to the room.
Best,
Erik
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Hi Tim,
I'll be doing a blog post with measurements. I don't have the space for a second sub. I've run through various scenarios with Room EQ Wizard's room simulator as well and it did not seem to help much. I think I can get excellent response if I tame some higher frequency issues.
I'll try to go through measuring the room "naked" and as I add treatment.
Lets see what happens!
Erik
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Hi Mijostyn, Erik, love the speakers. Were is the cross over point? 12dB/Oct? Thank you very much. 3rd order high pass, 2nd order low pass, around 1.8kHz. That’s the basic crossover design, but the reality is that the HP filter has variable slopes. Below around 2.4kHz it is 12db/Octave, then about 3 up until 20kHz. The tweeter has a natural hump in the low end this cleans up nicely, and I get broad near perfect phase matching with the mid-woofer from 1 kHz to 8 kHz. The woofer is designed as a 2nd order with Zobel and notch but the filter itself measures around 6db/Octave. Bass nodes can be used to advantage especially if your speakers are weak in the very low end. Just move the listening position backwards or forwards till you get the best bass balance. Sometimes it only takes a foot or two. It is very difficult to subdue them and you really only listen from one place. Or if I damp them well enough, every location will have good bass. :) Based on what I’m seeing with REW’s simulator, my biggest issues will be around 100-180 Hz with some anti-modes. I think 4 soffit traps and hung panels from the ceiling will make these quite manageable. I just thought of something which may be affecting my results. I designed the crossover of these speakers with the soffit traps in place. These were never, by design, done quasi-anechoic and I’ve never put them in a room without the bass traps. Maybe that’s why I got such a smooth bass response out of them so consistently? See more here: https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-snr-1-room-response-and-roon.html I do like Tim’s idea of the drape across the front wall behind the TV. That’s more of a bay window, but I’ll very much keep that in mind I like the idea of turning that bay window into a visible and sonic black hole. I’m not doing a retractable screen/projector because honestly I watch movies a lot. No reason to keep rolling it up and down, not to mention I like the colors of the OLED TV a great deal. |
Hi @b_limo
Thanks to you and everyone else for the good wishes. Due to the proximity of the walls, the amount of glass in the room and the TV in the middle plus the close distance to the couch I have to treat a little more aggressively than I would like to. I plan on using a diffusion panel on the wall behind the couch.
I may replace the two stand up panels with custom and narrow diffusion panels at some point however.
One thing I've been looking at using Room EQ Wizard's room simulator is the bass nodes, and they are kind of gnarly, even with an open room. I'm hoping the corner traps plus ceiling panels will smooth that out.
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As I look at the room and my move, it gets harder and harder to keep to the idea of separates. The attraction of getting rid of my beloved Luxman integrated, my Mytek DAC, HT processor and 3 monoblock amps to maintain a combined HT/Music system is vanishing.
Replacing them all with a single, new generation Anthem AVR is really really appealing.
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Hi @craigsu61
Thanks for the advice, but those look... um, not for the living room? :) I’m just going to go with the cream and burgundy curtains I already have.
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My only concern is that, from the photo I viewed, that window doesn’t appear to be exactly centered on that relatively short wall. If it’s not centered Hi Tim, @noble100 I believe this is an artifact of the angle alone. I may still use curtains for music only listening. You can read all about my speakers here: https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2017/12/snr-1-two-way-high-end-diy-monitor.htmlI have added a screen shot from GIK’s room layout tool. It will help visualize how I will be laying out the TV and main speakers. The sub will probably be on the wall on the left, right in front of the bass traps. I may raise the TV, and center it instead. Please keep in mind that nothing here is exact. The bookshelf for instance is not the right height. I have not yet put in the ceiling panels. I’m not sure about the room height, and I’ve yet to decide on anything on the rear wall. The plan is to have wall to wall GIK around the TV. In the corners the bass traps, then stand up panels at an angle to cover the short wall distance left to the bay window. This should be absorbent enough to let me snug the spakers upa to the panels. The front side walls have little space left for a panel, but I’ll be putting in black out curtains on everything glass. Right now the plan is to put in a rug, and 3 panels on the ceiling between the couch and the short wall. |
