Hi my name is gary and i have a short story about power conditioner ?. i had a monster hts 5000 p.c. top of the line at time and i thout i was done . but then i read a article on p.c. that some p.c. restrict the amps.the article went on to say that by bypassing the p.c.and pluging the amp straight into the wall then you could tell the difference. and i could the amps was being restricted.so though the hts 5000 it sounded resticted the bass was muddy and so on? but straight in the wall it sounded better. i did a lot of looking and ended geting bpt 2.5 at b-p-t.com it did not restrict and removed the harmonic and so on. it made high shimmer and the bass had authority WOW BIG DIFFERENCE so good luck do your home work. agin p.c. do make difference crapy power in crapy power out
Just be careful. Many conditioners can degrade sound.
I had my Meridain 508/24 into a Chang Lightspeed and was ok, but I noticed a pretty good improvement just by upgrading to a better wall plug ( cryo'd Porter Port ) and pluging in directly to the wall,thus eliminating the Chang Lightspeed.If possible consentrate on clean power ( direct line ) from your electric panel,upgrade your wall receptical and then if you have any money left start with a power cord on your cd player. I used a Zu Cable "Mother" on my Meridian for quite awhile and it does a nice job for a modest price....Later on if you feel you need or want to try a conditioner you can pick up a Mini Stealth or Matrix....Hope that helps....
There are many inferior power conditioners that rob power, induce their own AC noise, or induce other sonically harmful imperfections into the sonics.
But a top-of-the-line line-conditioner(s) are absolutely foundational to any system worth it's weight.
I'm partial to the passive line-conditioner and those that are dedicated one per component. And the highly rated Foundation Research LCs that I use are passive, dedicated, come with their own built-in power cable, and cost about as as much as a good power cable.
You might want to hunt down Marty DeWulf's August, 2003 issue of Bound for Sound where he claimed these LCs were simply the best he's heard and purchased them for his 'Big Rig'. There's also a StereoTimes.com review from a few years back.
There is no universal truth to power conditioners (as w/ everything else in audio!). Power conditioners could make a difference in your system BOTH for the better & for the worse. It depends....
I agree with Thorman: concentrate on clean power to your system from your panel (in the garage or basement) rather than doing a band-aid job in your listening room w/ a power conditioner. If you do not use an isolation xformer, then concentrating your efforts on clean power from the main panel will, generally, be cheaper than a power cond. (of course, you could put in 6-7 dedicated lines, create a new sup-panel, buy expensive outlets & rack up the cost!).
I do use a power cond. but only for the front-end components. All other components go into the wall. I find that this yields far superior sound + I do not have to deal with the power cond. sonic signature on top of the component's sonic signature. It's hard enough to get the sound right w/o a power cond. so I don't need yet another variable.
Power conditioners have diff. effects with diff. audio gear. You buy a power cond. today for the components you have today & all might be well. You change a piece of audio gear tomorrow, all of a sudden your power cond. has a diff. effect on the sound. You might like it, you might not (chances you will not are higher!). Then you are out in the market shopping for that synergistic power cond. Personally, this is the wrong way to audio but this is just MHO. In the end, it's your money & your system. My 2 cents FWIW. YMMV.
I also agree with Thorman. Money would be better spent on a dedicated line from panel, decent receptacle (Porter Ports, available here on A'GoN) and some decent powercords.
How's the VAC???
I use a Panamax 5300 for all the low current electronics; preamp, DAC, transport, etc.
The amp gets plugged directly into the wall. This being a dedicated 20A line.
I definitely noticed a difference between using a PC with the amp and going directly into the wall. The PC really restricted the sound.
Kevin at VAC plugs all his amps directly into the wall. This is during the burn-in testing. Even had them plugged in during a Florida thunderstorm. He said his amps could take it!!!
Bombaywalla, if it is absolutely true that there are no absolute truths when it comes to audio, then how can you make such a non-sensical statement as this?
In addition, is it not absolutely true that there are inferior products and superior products in the marketplace today?
But your statement begs the question: Are there any absolute truths that you cling to?
Sorry, but I just find statements like this absolutely amazing and absolutely meaningless. Regardless of the topic.
This is how I attained electric nirvana:
dedicated lines-Hubbell cryoed outles
killer power cords- Harmonix and Sonoran
Audio Magic Eclipse power conditioner
Costly I realize, but well worth it. You, certainly, don't have to go this way, but attention to the 3 is essential. Treat your electric as another major component. Electricity is mystical, and depending on where you live, effects the quality of your sound.
WTF! I feel that you are totally out of line here! Trying to pick a fight when there isn't one. I feel that if you have nothing useful to add to Cdc2's question then don't say anything. And....if you DO really want to fight, email me off-line!
Here's my rebuttal (anything else, let's take it off-line):
What is wrong in writing "there are no absolute truths in audio"?
I do not understand why you are nit-picking on this statement?
Inferior products vs. superior products: Sure there are but that's MY opinion. Somebody else might like what I dislike. Would that be incorrect? I'm not imposing my likes & dislikes on anyone. I'm merely recommending. If that person choses to blow off my reco, so be it.
Absolute truths I cling to? It's irrelevant in this forum.
Stehno, take a real chill pill, OK?
I feed my system off a 30 amp, 220V dedicated line via a 95 lb, 220V/110V isolation transformer/filter. Most any other solution will end up in the *wannabe* category. Power at the panel level is where it should be addressed first (this would include a brand new circuit breaker). I do have more going on, like balanced filtration, parallel filtration and power cord tuning devices, but that gets complicated for a begginer...
I have the Chang CLS 6400 and it makes a positive difference at a low budget. I am a renter, so I'm not going to rewire anything inside the walls. Otherwise, I would suggest curcuit isolation if you own your place. I plug the amp into the wall however; otherwise compression takes place.
My experience with Monster conditioners has been bad. They affect the sound negatively. So, it depends on the conditioner.
But before everyone turns the thread into a brawl, CDC2 and I still haven't gotten an answer on whether there is a benefit to adding a power cable going into a power conditioner?
High Priest & Mr. Bombay in a fight. Hmmm....
I went with a BPT 2 with a dedicated line and it does make a substantial difference in both audio and video.
I have a Meridian 508.24 and I have it plugged into a Hydra 8.
The Hydra 8 is plugged into a dedicated outlet for my digital only.
Anlog and Power Amp are on seperate dedicated circuits.
Each step improved the sound.
In my opinion, start with dedicated circuits then use quality power cords to the dedicated circuits.
Add a Power conditioner as the finances approve.
Beware however, some Power Conditioners are just surge suppressors and can limit the sound stage and dynamics
I am currently using 4 RGPC (for the amps)and 1 Hydra 8 (for the source components) in my system. The improvements have been cumulative. The negative is that problems in the electronics, speakers, cables and room are now more easily detected.
a. It appears that most people feel that a high quality source power cord can make a big difference.
b. Depending on one's amp, the power cord here can also make a difference.
c. Most people, including Kevin of VAC think that pluging the amp directly into the wall is the best solution, though there are exceptions where a good power conditioner could improve the sound, and cases where they could also inhibit the sound.
d. I'm still not clear whether a power conditioner is a good idea for source and preamp, assuming a good power cord.
I'm starting by putting my dollars into power cords. Then I'll see if I can borrow some power conditioners to see if they make a difference.
On some things most agree, on many the variables inherent in a system cause variance in results. Of course the biggest variable of all in my case is between my ears.
Dedicated lines first. If money is a factor (isn't it always) go with a power cord to your source. That, alone, will tittilate your tympanics. You can work your way up from there. Remember, when you move up to a power conditioner, you have to figure outlet to PC, then cords to electronics. I'd put the best cord from your PC to electronics. I'm an electric junkie, but it has worked beautifully in my system. Can get crazy.
Bombaywalla, your statement was in fact non-sensical and self-contradictory. And I will not apologize for pointing that out.
You asked "What is wrong with stating 'There are no absolute truths in audio'?"
Well, I see at least 4 errors with your questionable statement and thought process:
1. I don't know you, but I think it's pretty safe to say that you are not omniscient (all knowing). Not even in the audio realm. But such a lofty statement as yours would seem to imply that you have special or divine insight into the audio realm that negates everything everybody said before now and everything they may say from here on out.
2. You don't seem to understand that when you make the declaration about no absolute truths in audio, you are actually declaring an absolute truth in audio. Thereby contradicting the very tenet you are attempting to establish or defend.
3. In effect, you are attempting to negate every posting and poster that trys to establish or share potential truths with others. In other words, if what you say is true about no absolute truths, then nobody including you has any business to post anything other than the following:
a. "I don't know."
b. "My truth is not your truth. So go ahead and make something up. I did."
c "There are no absolute truths in audio."
And any other response would be erroneous.
4. By making such a statement, you are, in effect, attempting to elevate yourself over every other person that stands by certain, potential, and/or absolute truths.
You asked "why are you nit-picking on this statement?" I hope my statement above answers that question.
And lastly, I also disagree with your statement regarding my question to you about absolute truths being irrelevant to this forum. It was you who brought up the topic and I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that this philosophy you espouse in audio is simply a reflection of the philosophies you espouse at a heart level about many other things. If that is true, then you brought an off-shoot of your philosophies or faith into this thread. And since my faith is filled with absolute truths, I felt compelled to address your statement.
But to prove to you that there are absolute truths in audio and beyond, I will give you just a few examples for audio reproduction:
1. A source is absolutely required for playback.
2. A power source is absolutely required to power source.
3. A speaker or headphone is absolutely required.
4. A remote is absolutely required.
5. We are both absolutely sharing in this correspondence. (for if it were not so, then one of us is typing and the other doesn't exist).
Bombaywalla, you obviously felt compelled to share your beliefs in this public forum and you have that right. My beliefs compelled me to respond to your beliefs and I also have that right.
Well Psychic, how did I do?
Somebody needs to go to their "happy place" for a little while.
A-cliff diving we will go!
Stehno,you don't need no stinkin' remote! Lazy Dog! My first Audio Research system didn't. Of course, being equally spoiled and lazy I have one now. BTW, I laughed when I read your original critism, because logically you cannot claim "There are no absolute truths in audio!" because in it's emphatic statement it proclaims an absolute truth. "There are probably no absolute truths in audio" would have been logical.
Stehno you have a point: "What comes out of my mouth is the conversation that I am.". It is very possible that Bombay acts in the same way in just about every aspect of his life. The answer I give is that everything is "application specific", so in reality there is nothing that will work well in every scenario. That is indeed an absolute. Hell, under the right circumstances Bose 901's will be kick ass!
Are you bald/balding? It's not a trick question. Cause if you are you'd be better off discussing with Bombay something like what works absolutely better, the sexual techniques in the Kama Sutra, Al Katab or the ancient Taoist sexual treatsies!
Hey, a few days ago I gave Jimbo a metaphysical recipe to improve his life...
Jimbo, you need to take a series of herbal baths with a few plants named "cundeamor" (from the verb cundir, to extend in all directions and the word amor, love), "albahaca" (Basil, to add spice, taste), red rose petals (for passion), and some honey (to counter bitterness)--with ice cubes thrown in for the crispness/coolness factor. Next place some patchouli root bunches in every drawer of your clothes dresser. Things will get better...and you will begin smelling like a *virile* man. After the therapy you can ask your new buddy Raoul to take you to a few places in Mexico. Have some cabrito with negra modelo dark beer, a couple shots of tequila at El Tío in Monterrey, then have Raoul drive you to Club Prestige (my girlfriend works there). Find a nice mami to give you the FULL lap dance treatment ( it's in a closed room...around 900 pesos + tip ) and you'll start ignoring my posts--guaranteed.
Do you think it will work?
If Jimbo has the desire to improve and a little faith the herbs will bridge his self and the universe, realigning the course of his life. I've learned stuff like this from a couple of psychics. Not everything is audio...
Bombay, my psychic prescription for you is dancing lessons. How about swing?
What does the Ultra get you? I'm thinking of a 2 or a 2.5 Ultra. THe obvious difference is another 500VA but is there something else in the Ultra labling?