Diffuser decision for ceiling

Why not hang what you have and listen. If it were me I would measure (!I use Audio Tools sw w a calibrated mic but REW is fine )!before and after … the gaps are fine. I assume w center channel you have a big highly reflective screen ? What are you doing to treat that ????

go Canada you are my plan B … I spend summers there…

@tomic601 yes, so, the issue is, I don't know how to hang them temporarily as I haven't purchased the kit needed to hang them as they cost quite a bit, hence why I took a step back and said, before investing in the J profile rail , glue, etc Let me see which one is better, then purchase the necessary accessories needed. 

The issue is, I have a matte black ceiling, so I definitely don't want to make any holes that need to be redone/re touched up. 

I wish I knew how to use REW, but also the time it would take to learn it. 

I have been told about the screen being an issue and was told to use a blanket to cover it, I do need to try that one day and see what differences it makes. 

Come to Canada anytime!

I have a similar setup though I'm running Focal mains.  I went with absorption rather than diffusion on the ceiling.  I'm very pleased with the sound I'm getting.  I setup one row of panels about 4 feet from the front wall, then their is a break with just sheetrock for 18 inches then a second row of absorption panels that ends roughly at the listening position.  There's really no right or wrong because everyone hears things differently.  Good luck and cheers.

thanks @rick_n for the input,

Yeah, at this point, I have about ~ 9 acoustic panels on the walls. So I was looking to liven it up a bit. 

So absorption in your ceiling, see , this is why I was kind of thinking of going the VicPattern Ultra Wavewood route, it gives a bit of the best of both words, so its like a meet in between type of scenario. 

The panels you have are only 4 pounds each. Use this for temporary 

https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=blu%20tack%20adhesive%20putty&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5

or this 

https://www.command.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b5005604181/
Agree with the idea of having a couple of and up to six inches of space between ceiling and panels. They are called clouds ☁️ for a reason. I’d still look at absorption for the ceiling as that is one giant flat panel up there. Anyways, give the putty a try you never know If that is the sound you were looking for unless you try. Good luck with your endeavors. Sounds like you’re gonna have a bunch of fun.

Thanks @gkelly and just to add, its sad, because I wouldn't be able to do a comparison, Ill take a look at those putty options. 

Just wanted to add, although, I guess it shouldnt be of great importance, I would 100% prefer the look of the Wavewood, it would stick out less and blend in with the ceiling much better. 

@skads_187 

+1 @rick_n on absorption. My ceiling is also 7’ 1/2” and my room is almost the same size as yours. you need to control the room well to get the best performance. Don’t worry about too much absorption right now. You can always take some out if needed. 

I use GIK absorption for first reflections on the walls and ceiling and a thick wool cut-pile rug with pad for the floor. I have Ultra Wavewood Diffusers on the walls and DC3 diffusers on the ceiling to further treat the room. I use 3M Dual Lock strips to hang lighter panels on the ceiling. Be aware that you need a certain distance between you and diffusers for them to work properly.

I agree that space between treatments is not bad.

My virtual system has pics: https://www.audiogon.com/systems/11207

Good luck!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZcOnXHH72dNm_h0G6xg3W-RSuOwvUKSs/view?usp=sharing

I mounted 4 Wavewood panels on 8 ' ceiling using adhesive and a safety hook.  

They are centered on a line from Sonus Faber  Nova 3 and listening position using the first reflection point of tweeters.  It made a big improvement. 

Are you up for trying something low cost, effective, and fun?

Buy two packages of Golden Sound Acoustic Discs.  Use one on the ceiling corners and experiment with the others on speakers, side walls and rack.       

Can't miss, for less than $300!

Thanks everyone, @davejaz  that looks really good!

Yeah I spoke to a acoustic treatment specialist yesterday, he advised i stick with the Vicoustic Multifuser DC2. He did suggest i try to take some measurements before and after. Which may take me awhile to learn REW and how to use it. So Ill have to see. 

Another good suggestion is I can use maybe some industrial Velcro and not have to buy the whole railing Vicoustic system.

@sgordon1 

I would like to see the studies that are associated with the statement: "Scientific measurement shows that Acoustic Discs reduce cumulative spectral decay from 30 to 50 percent between 80 to 15000 Hz." I could not find any on their website but perhaps I just didn't look closely enough.

GIK and Vicoustics have data/graphs that demonstrate their effects and effectiveness. I don't think you should settle for less when it comes to acoustic treatment. 

if you’re able to take time to learn and operate REW. One could easily conclude that you could take your DIY skills and manufacture your own panels for easily half the cost. 

@gkelly  im more of a tech guy versus a handyman sadly. but i probably could make an acoustic panel for sure, but I dont think I need any more for now. 

Is there any threads on this forum about learning REW? or I guess i need to go to some other ones, wonder if chatgpt can maybe help. 

Here's what I think you should do: Treat the ceiling

What I think you should avoid however is diffusion there.  Your ceiling is too low.  You want pure absorption. 

Further, please keep in mind that treating 1st reflections ALONE is usually not very useful.  You need a minimum critical mass of room control before that really helps.  In other words, yes, treat the 1st reflection points, but plan to have 2-4 x more treatment than that. 

I like to think of the room as a cross, with the arms of the cross the speaker locations.  You want diffusion at the 4 points of the cross, absorption elsewhere.   That is, directly between the speakers, to the sides of the speakers and behind the listener are good places for diffusion.  Absorbers elsewhere, and possibly bass traps in the corners based on room response. 

Thanks @erik_squires 

I like this info:

I like to think of the room as a cross, with the arms of the cross the speaker locations.  You want diffusion at the 4 points of the cross, absorption elsewhere.   That is, directly between the speakers, to the sides of the speakers and behind the listener are good places for diffusion.  Absorbers elsewhere, and possibly bass traps in the corners based on room response. 

I think what I will do is wait for the ceiling, treat the front and back walls first. Try to learn REW before that , take measurements and go step by step.

The side of speakers, at the very end, i would need to remove the 1 panel on each side and replace it with diffusers.

My front wall (behind the speakers in the middle) I was told to use QRD diffusers. 

My front wall (behind the speakers in the middle) I was told to use QRD diffusers. 

With that short ceiling, I’d stick to horizontal diffusers vs. any that do vertical and horizontal.  Not just behind the speakers but anywhere else you plan on using them. 

The long slats in a QRD are ideal for this. 

Thanks and what type of diffuser should I use on the sides of the speakers?

On my back wall, I was told to use a 2D QRD Diffuser (the wooden one with squares)

I had Vicoustic do an analysis of my 12 x 22 room. On the ceiling, starting at the front wall, I have four cinema rounds, followed by 2 DC two at the first reflection point, followed by three wave woods, followed by two cinema rounds. As far as the Wavewoods, I found that the Vic Pattern Ultra exacerbated a suckout between 100 and 200 hz, so I only used one, flanked by two Wavewood Ultra Diffusers MK IIs. Very positive results. I used REW to run curves before treatment, then I ran a curve after installing each row, experimenting with quantity and placement so that I knew what each component was doing. 

….on the subject of mounting, I didn’t want to glue any of the panels in. I found a nearby glass shop that sells J-strips as mirror mounts. This is cheap, easy to cut with a jigsaw, and fits the Vicoustic grooves. For each row of panels on the ceiling, I used a pair of these, with the open ends facing opposite directions. With this arrangement, it was easy to slide each panel onto the rails I built. It’s very difficult to take accurate measurements when the surface is above your head, so I cut templates from fiberboard to guide placement of the rails. Hope this helps.

Thanks @doug033 , which option did you take with Vicoustic for the analysis, I was debating this as well!

Definitely need to get on that REW then. I will need to use some forums for help understanding the results though. So lots to learn.

I definitely want to keep the ceiling mounting to a minimum if i can If possible as to not have to hang too many panels. 

Also, how high is your ceiling?

I mounted Cinema Rounds and DC3s on the ceiling using one square inch pieces of 3M DualLock, one piece in the center and one in each corner. For the Cinema Rounds, I cut and glued 22”  squares of Plaskolite 0.157-inch x 48-inch x 96-inch White Corrugated Plastic Sheet (Home Depot) to the back of the Cinema Rounds to give the DualLock something to stick to. Used a laser to line things up.

I took the 200$ option; my dealer told me the 500$ option was only necessary for complex home theaters. Good luck!

@doug033 Thanks! yeah i was debating between the 99 or 200, definitely not the 500, that would be way too much with the conversion from EUR to CAD. thanks

Thanks and what type of diffuser should I use on the sides of the speakers?

Your limiting factor in any direction is the low ceiling.  You might be OK with 2D diffusors if they are away from your listening location, but I would not chance it.  Go with horizontal diffusors as much as you can.  Also, GIK has combination diffusor/absorber panels you can use which can be covered and even have artwork put on them.