Best Midbass woofer for solid 30hz - 2khz


Seas Excel series.
Older Magnesiium model  W18,W22.
New Models Graphene and  maybe, bt not sure the new Nextel Coated paper cone (??)
My guess is the new Flagship Graphene Magnesium has adeeper bass goinfg all the way down to 20hz. But these are pricey vs the older Magnesium cones, as in the Thors. 
Not sure if this Excel magnesium has been or will ever be surpassed. 
What sets this woofer apart from the rest is the clean, near perfect voicing of the upper midbass range. Human voice comes through witha  sur-real  naturalness. 
At least in the Magnesium older model, I suspect the Graphene also displays this perfection in these fq's. maybe even better with the new titanium voice coil added. + larger magnet. Magnet weight .9kg 20-2k hz
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=575:e0077-08-w22nx001&ca...
mozartfan
We could also sub  title this topic, 
Speaker Shootout Part 2.
Been swaping out FR in my system lately, 
One FR has been shooting down another, and the winner shot down by yet another. 
Same for conventional/traditional xover designs. Speaker A shots down B, B shoots down C, C gets annihilated by D, D gets smackdown by Speaker E. and so on, so forth.
Yet there comes a time for the ~~Last Speakers Standing Circle~~
Seas Excel line stands in this Supreme Winners Circle~~
Not even Feastrex's $80K full range Field Coil is going to out perform Seas in  bass 30-60hz range. Perfection is perfection. 
After the 100hz, now Feastrex and Voxativ stand alone in this winners circle,. These 2 labs, stand supreme. 
No other speakers in the universe will outperform either Voxativ /Feastrex in the 20hz - 20k hz,
None, 
But what speaker do stand in this circle are a  few Seas Excel line and no doubt some speakers comming out of Scanspeak's labatories.
Seas
Scanspeak
Feastrex
Voxativ
If  your speakers do not have these drivers, You have a  loser, which can be easily shot down by any of these 4. 
Pricey, oh yes, but as the old saying goes
~~You get what you pay for~~
Caveat here is Scan and Seas only maintain a position in this winners shootout circle with their bass producing drivers, and perhaps low midrange. 
Now if we are talking the complete 30hz-15khz, 
 ,  Feastrex and Voxativ stand alone

Lets keep in mind, there is hardly any fq's in the 20-30hz range, so its a  mute point  to go seeking those fq's, Once you finda  woofer that does manage the 20-30hz's, then almost guarantee there will be issues in the upper mid bass/lower midrange voicing from the woofer's phase plug, say 500hz-1500hz. 

Here is where the Seas Excel really shines.
You sacrifice the 20-40hz, but you receive stunning resolution on the 50-1500hz's. 
Every speaker is a  compromise,
Perhaps the new Excel Graphene acheives  best of both, but i'm not in a position to afford that driver. 
There are certainly a few that can get you close...  So does size matter? 
6 to 8 inch? Do you need something that rolls off smooth at 2k or is something that needs crossover work ok? 
Also,  there are things that get you into the 30's but flat down to 30 is more difficult to find



7.5" ATC mid/bass unit, would have to be close to the best, a friend managed a pair as "spare part" though his tech service mate. 

http://www.audiostereo.ro/ATC%20gallery/atc_sb75-150sl_midbass%201%20large.jpg

  • Features:

    • ATC’s Super Linear 195mm midbass driver
    • Super Linear Magnetic System low distortion
    • doped fabric cone
    • 75mm integral soft dome for wide and even midrange dispersion
    • short coil/ long gap voicecoil system
    • flat wire voice coil
    • die-cast aluminum chassis, vented below spider
    • huge 9kg optimised high-energy magnet system
Cheers George
There are certainly a few that can get you close... So does size matter?
6 to 8 inch? Do you need something that rolls off smooth at 2k or is something that needs crossover work ok?
Also, there are things that get you into the 30's but flat down to 30 is more difficult to find


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm sure4 Troel Gravesen could find drivers that match Seas Excel line, but then why bother?
Seas has the right sonics in their Excel magnesium line, i see no point looking any further.
AS I say perhaps the new Flagship Graphene does in fact go to 20-30hz in the W22, but at the price + xovers, its way out of my budget.
The older Flagship the magnesium Excel work just fine for me, as i get dual W18s. where a  single W22 will not offer the same richness in the 40-80hz,s which the dual W18001 exhibit, Dual Graphene will  be too bass heavy, , So there's the rub, take a single W22 get lower bass 20-40hz, But lacks the  richness of dual W18001's.
I opt for the dual W18's which is priced at one W22 Graphene. 
These Excel Magnesium are in competition with the very best of the single source wide band FR drivers. 
Now I am speaking of full orchestra music as the soundstage. 
In jazz a  single  FR is all you need, Which go down to 20hz. 
Since my genre of music is classical, the dual W18's beat out a  1st class FR. 
Ideally a  5 inch FR is all that is needed for  pairing with a  dual W18 configure.  A high quality 4 is perahps even better.
I have both a  4 and a  5 Fr arriving in 2 weeks, I'll keep u=you posted on their performances. Both under $200 a  pair, so I am not expecting much, just hoping for the best.  The one really looks very promising, the other is a gamble at $110/pair/5 inch. 
The other FR's did not work out. 
But one thing is for sure, the dual W18's  are permanent and the Seas Millennium  will never be heard ever again, Its going to be *dumped* on Ebay. 
Midrange/tweeters can not stand up, none of them, A-Z can  not out shoot a   high quality FR. 
And I now have zero interest in compression tweeter horns. A tweet horn risks  adding in ~sibilance~.
Again as with the 20-40 hz range, same here with the 12k hz range, i can sacrifice the super highs, provided a  high quality Fr can perform exceptional in the 1k-12khz range.
In classical there is not much offering in the above 12k hz range. 
But actually here is where some high fidelity Fr really shine, is in the upper region. 
making a  all tweeters obsolete and even moreso compression horns. 
FR is the most perfect driver  invented. 


Apparently the W18 Graphene is not too bass heavy,
4 per cabinet,, wow, thats  a  $4k upgrade!!!!
Unreal
Now i know i must at least swap out the bottom W18's for a  W22 Graphene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toMiuarBZY0
“Lets keep in mind, there is hardly any fq's in the 20-30hz range, so its a mute point to go seeking those fq's”... total bs for me.

much of my music hits 20-30hz.  Music such as Clozee, Eskmo, Bumble, Merkaba, Tipper, SpoonBill... need me to continue?

And your blanket statements about the excels not hitting that low is bs as well.  I have 2 7” seasexcel drivers in each speaker, transmission line, and they easily put out 25 hz at loud volumes.

I jumped on someone else for calling you the new Kenjit but I see where they were coming from
@mozartfan...... sorry,  I can't do this anymore, you are a waste of time.  You have no interest in learning.  
Why 30hz to 2khz for mid?  Makes no sense in a 3 way.
Hmm. Surprised you have any interest in anything but an FR. thought you made that really clear in your other post..... where you said FR a thousand times. 
No, as we all know a FR has its limitations.
There is no denying that. Field Coils may over come all the issues, I have no idea. I have to work with what i have.
So lets forget FC’s for the moment.
We already have superior bass in the Thors W18’s these are not the EX,001 only the entry model E001.
Had I swaped out a  E001 for say a  EX001 or a  Graphene, may not have made more than a  ~nuance~
I’m looking for a real modification.
So my research tonight has brought us to
The Real Deal.
That is Seas newest W18 driver, the Nextel 003 which replaces the Nextel 001.
The 003 has a titanium voice coil and a larger magnet.
2x’s the price of the 001, but worth it.
Troels has nothing but the highest praise for the driver.
Thing is, its so new hard to find a dealer.
Found one in the UK, ,,, will conatct madisound tomorrow, I’m sure it will bea special order, so means wait time and ship fees.
I’m in no hurry as i don’t have $800 cash right now, that went in the Thors upgrades.
Glad my time spent researching tonight, about 4 hours, brought me to the W18NX003.
here is what led me to this speaker. Richard Gray mentioned his favorite material for woofers is the humblev ~Paper cone~, I tend to agree, So knowing the Nextel does in fact have a treated paper cone, I made further research into the Nextel.
By mere chance I ran across a article from partsexpress / report in Dec last year on the newest Nextel design,
The W18NX003.
From there I went to Troels page where he has very wonder-ful things to say about its build and performance.

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=591:w18nx003-nextel-news&...


Just waiting on Richard Gray to say 
~not doable, different specs~
in the morning.
I would go with an original vintage extended range driver that will cover that range easily and with more finesse and resolution than a new driver but you will have to use an appropriate sized baffle and cabinet to properly mount the driver into.
Mozartfan, that's nice. Then the crossover screws it all up. If you want really accurate midbass go to a planar magnetic, ribbon or better yet ESL loudspeaker. Dynamic drivers just flap in the breeze. It's like running your outboard motor in air. 
so like what would you prefer
a   woofer that goes down to 20hz-40hz
OR a   woofer that *Only* goes as far as 40hz, but voices the 40-1500 with purity/fidelity???
I know which I would prefer,
I have lost all interest in seeking 20hz-40hz's
as in our music there is less than 1% represented in that range,
= the 99% is most important.
Besides if we did a  blind A/B test, 1 speaker goes to 20hz, the other *only* 40hz, 
could you blind test which is which ona  record that actually has the 20-40hz represented??
I doubt it, 
Lucky guess. 
We need to  redefine  how a  woofer should perferm. Regardless how low it goes.