not to complicate things but the krell fpb c and cx series are tremendous amplifiers especially at the current preowned prices. the size is a downside but they are very dynamic, powerful and reliable. the krell sound is not loved by all (i find many of the negative comments grossly exagerated) however they are certainly good enough to be considered when looking in that range. good luck on your quest...
Not neccessarily true, Grannyring. Tube Research makes some very beautiful amplifiers and preamplifiers. Paul was one of the first to offer 1 inch thick face panels and large gold plated panels.
They are considerably more money that the $3500 Dude. There is one gold face plate Dude that I know of. Maybe Paul can send you photos?
I think so to. I've tried, but SS just doesn't do it for me; although I realize that some speakers just can't sound there best with tubes and demand the use of SS, with the exception of a few high powered, high current tubes amps - which isn't necessarily the best approach to appreciating what tubes can do.
Ck, I agree that tube amps certainly do not control the bass like an SS (maybe a CAT JL2)but no matter how much I try to enjoy SS, it never sounds real to me compared with tubes. I recently had the Pass XA30.5 and it does sound great on its own terms and is surely one of the best SS amps available. I then switch to Music Reference or Atma-sphere tube amp and well I no longer have the Pass - tubes just sound better in almost every way, at least with my easy to drive Merlins. So I wonder if you conclude the Nuforce are better than tube amps under 10k, and your familiar with them, or you are basically oriented to SS and tight bass control. If the Nuforce competed with tubes I would certainly try it, but it would be a first.
That sounds like a sweet setup. I have not heard a Spectron vs a NuForce direct comparison. A good friend of mine with good ears has auditioned some Spectron products but came away unimpressed FWIW.
If you contact NuForce they offer a free demo if you do not have a dealer near you. Something to consider.
Power cords and vibration control are very helpful with the amps.
Ck, I owned the VTL TL7.5, considered one of the best, and ran it with the Spectron MIIISE, had top Purist PCs and Evolution Acoustics SCs, Im looking for something that can blow this combo.
I like tube equipment. In fact I have a BAT VK 31SE driving the NuForce amps. You will not find a tube amp that can control the base and give you the power of the 9 SE V2 for anywhere near 5K. The inner detail and soundstage are excellent without any fatigue whatsoever.
Have you auditioned a Spectron vs. a NuForce? Of the amps I tried vs NuForce I believe you would be hard pressed to find an amp better for under 10k. Just my humble opinion and ears!
Have you considered a pair of NuForce 9SE V2? They are in your price range and could easily drive your speakers. Power cord upgrade is a must and still would be around 6K.
The Berning is extremely neutral IMO. Some have referred to it as lean. I don't agree with that. In many ways it has the same attributes as an excellent passive premp. The sytem I listened to it in also included a Joule LA-100 MkIII preamp, Cary CDP, and Merlin speakers. The Berning just let the music through.
On the other hand the Moscode has some of the best bass I have ever heard in an amp. In comparison to the Berning it sounds a little meatier and adds a little color, but not much. The Moscode was used with a passive TVC, Ayre CDP, and Spendor speakers.
my personal pick(though not for all), symphonic line. otherwise ss classics like mac or mccormick...tube classics like arc or cj.....they all still compete with the new kids, and all have 'history' and perceived value. there are lots of great ones that are up there like mccormick, spectral, etc, but if you are looking for the proverbial 'last amp' its hard to beat the classics.
I have not heard the Spectron but have heard the other 3. The Berning is going to be tough to find used and is no longer available new from what I have heard. The Moscode is a great amp. I believe the new model 402 is being debuted at RMAF this month. I'm confused as to whether it will replace the 401 or be available in addition to the 401. Price tag on the 402 is about $6500, but Moscode allows for 33 day in home trial period. After I hear the 402 next week I may bring it in for a listen. I've always liked the Moscode design.
Of course you've read my opinions on the D-225. Bottom line though is these are 3 great options. I don't think you could make a bad choice.
I would say to keep things inexpensive and pick up a used Hafler 9500 or even maybe a 9505. I bought the 9500 new some time ago and sold it to move up to a Krell 300c. I wish sometimes that I would have kept that amp! It was a super sweet sounding amp! Don't get me wrong, the Krell is also a nice amp but I don't think it does as well with electorstatics as the Hafler amp did.
Rafael, maybe you can aswer this, Im not sure its true but: Current MOSFET devices can't switch faster than 3nS which means the resolution of the Spectron amp is no more than 13 bit?
I have now purchased the Dude preamp by trl - this is a tubed unit. My previous favorite pre was the Audio Horizons TP2.1. The Dude bests it in all areas and by a good margin.
If one is interested in the new trl gear they must be ..
1) patient , as Paul hand makes these one at a time and sometimes he gets behind or is waiting on parts. 2) Must not want audio jewelery as the amp and pre are very standard looking - perhaps a step above DIY. They don't come with manuals, footers, thick face plates etc.
But, what you get is glorious sound and Paul's talent in circuit design.
For me, when asked what the best amp is for under $6000, the D225 is a proverbial "no brainer" when considering sound quality alone.
Also, Paul's current D225 has some updates that include the power supply. I also use his power cord on the amp which really was a match made in heaven. I am waiting on this speaker cables now.
I can see how my reasoning might not make sense (not that I've ever placed a high value on reasoning). I could have held on to the D-225 (sold it to another TRL family member). Ultimately I wanted to try something different (not to mention I got the VACs for a price I could not turn down). I've always been curious about VAC and in their own right, and especially with my Audiokinesis Stormbringer speakers, the Auricle MB-70s sound great.
It will be awhile before I can pursue the battery powered momoblocks and I have two other projects I'm working on (building a TT and getting back into analog and digital tape). So as you can see variety is the spice of life for me.
I was given a money back offer on my D-225. There was no need to take them up on it.
It is a great amp that can handle difficult speaker loads. The transparency is amazing. I think the leap of faith for me was more about the TRL house sound. Having had a TRL digital mod done to my DAC I got a taste of their house sound before I bought the amp. The question for me was how much more I could handle. It's a quite addictive sound, especially when you add more TRL components and cabling to the mix.
You don't see these amps come up used for a reason. I sold mine by word of mouth. Saving up for my next TRL project. Battery powered monoblocks.
I think SP uses Belles amps to voice their speakers.
After owning several Belles amps and others mentioned here, I must tell you one amp stands head and shoulders above the rest.
Get a trl D225 stereo amp as it is the best amp for your speakers. I can say with 100% confidence you will not find any amp under $6000 that sounds as good.
Amazing amp that breaks through the sound ceiling I thought all home stereo was under. After owning and hearing amps in my reference costing up to $14,000 the trl was a complete revelation.
I know I sound over the top, but after just a few minutes with this amp you will experience what I know.
Hello Perrew, Mk2 is the same Spectron in the sense of the speaker control. There are small improvments, of course - bass is tighter, faster - imaging is sharper. Where Mk2 shines its the midrange (and highs) - literally SET midrange - many people who own both can tell you the same. Good Luck Rafael P.S. Atm-Sphere is also great amp but only, only if your impedance is never lower then 4 Ohms
Perrew, do you have a preference for SS or Tubes? If tubes, and if your speaker really have that smooth an impedance curve, you might want to consider an Atma-Sphere MA-1 (used), another excellent tube choice would be a used CAT JL2, which does care much what your impedance curve is, but flatter and higher is better for all amps - and a Music Reference RM200 or RM9 which would be well below your price point but competitive in terms of sound quality with much more expensive gear. The Quicksilver V4s would also be a great choice and drive your speakers with ease. On the SS side, and given that you proabably need 100 watts with your speakers I would look at either used Ayre or Pass XA amps, though the Pass may be above your price point to get enought power. My 2 cents.
Tvad, whats your amp at the moment? I wasnt overly impressed with the Spectron MIIISE. Is the MkII that much better? The others I havent heard. H2O looks interesting.
Regardless of room size, speakers etc - buy used Musician III (about $3k) - send it to Spectron for factory upgrade to Mk2 - $1.5k and for $4.5k total you have one of the best amps in the world.
Problem is that used Musician III is soild within 24 hours.
New Musican III Mk2 retails for $7k - so find a good dealer and press on price and you will get a new for slightly above $6k.
I don't have to describe the amp - do search on Interent or go to Spectron Audio web site for professional reviews. No amp with retail cost below $15k can come even close to this one - midrange of the best tubes amps combine with the iron clad control of the bass
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