Don thanks for the info I'm going to try some! What do you clean with before the rinse?
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Don made his point. Aquafina is actually chemically distilled sink water that IMHO has no point spending money for drinking. I'd prefer pure spring water since purified distilled water is missing lots of substances the spring water provides to human.
I guess it might be great to clean records though...
Maybe some of his records aren't all that priceless!
Like Dan and Stltrains, we rinse with water that's much purer than Aquafina. That water meter would probably measure 0 ppm.
I spilled bit on the counter yesterday. In a few minutes it dissolved a residue I didn't even know was there, a residue normal household cleaning products don't remove. The formica was left distinctly whiter than the surrounding area.
As Viridian knows (having wasted so many years chatting with us audiophiles!) lab grade water is a powerful solvent that's actually unsafe to drink. Different applications, different products.
Michael Fremer, long-time vinyl advocate/columnist at Stereophile, currently
runs a TT setup that cost a bunch more than my Porsche (and that's assuming
he got it at less than half MSRP). As to the issue of residue, I'm assuming
everyone uses an RCM that reduces residue from the rinsing agent to the
vanishing point. I'll leave it to others to worry about what's left behind :-)
I don't think Perrier would work well. Too many minerals in there. Maybe the natural carbonation would add scrub factor?
Coke or Pepsi water is probably high end water for most.
Poland Springs might be worth a try.
I use cheaper distilled water acquired by the gallon. Works good for cleaning records but I wouldn't drink it.
Well, Doug, I do think it reflects a willingness to put your money where your mouth is, with respect to trying to squeeze the best possible sound out of vinyl. Maybe he succeeds at that, maybe he doesn't, but his was a voice crying in the wilderness for YEARS while others were taking the easy (CD) way out. I believe he also has a DVD out that explains how to get the most out of a turntable setup so, yes, I believe he has a certain amount of expertise in this field. And he's also done tests of cleaning fluids and respects the AIVS regimen that, I believe, both you and I use. Though I do wind up now with the Aquafina.
And in the mountain-out-of-molehill category, I suggest that this thread really takes the cake. But then I don't drive like Schumacher, so what do I know?
Just a second here we spend thousands on gear thousands on our precious records and when it comes to the part where the sound of the record can be made better by spending a few more bucks for lab grade water and some find reasons to use inferior water to rinse with because of a few dollars thats scandalous i tell ya.
I bought 2 cases of Nerl ultra pure water last year and still have 1 case left and have cleaned hundreds of records for 37.00 to rinse them and thats 2 rinses per side. Well i guess thats me and my ears are worth the few dollars spent for better sound. Like i said above
Think About It.
Just out of curiosity, what is the limit for impurities in the lab grade water? It has been a decade or so since I worked in a lab, but if I recall correctly the specification for Purified Water USP was 1 ppm total dissolved solids. This is the water we routinely used except for sensitive HPLC testing. Lab grade can mean different things.
Also, the downside to purchasing in large quantities is the length of time it would take to use it all after opening the bottle. It is not easy to keep things from growing in your water. Those specifications dont mean a thing after that.
I think that's the primary point, Wdi. From my understanding on what I've read about the use of Aquafina is that the levels of dissolved solids in it render it essentially "lab-grade" even though it's not marketed that way, obviously.
I've been using it since Fremer (like him or not...) first started talking about it and find it works every bit as well as the more pricey stuff I had been using. It's readily available and cheap.
I've been a tad skeptical about generic grocery-store "distilled" water.
Newbrook, I just looked at Aquafina prices when picking up some things at the supermarket, and it was 95 cents per quart. I didn't see any distilled water there as cheap as $2/gallon. At these prices, it's pretty academic, though. And anyone who thinks his pricy ultra-pure water (my last bottle cost approx. $25 for 32 oz.) is going to STAY ultra-pure should read Wdi's comment.
On the broader subject, I find that the more steps I add to my cleaning regimen, the fewer records I can actually bring myself to clean. A second rinse would just about finish me off :-)
Let's talk water. Fremer can come in and learn, too! Aquafina is reverse osmosis (RO) purified water to which minerals have been ADDED in order to improve taste! Now, tastewise, it is excellent. Whoever came up with the mix did a great job. RO water can be purified in a single stage (one pass) or dual stage (two pass) system. Depending on source water quality, a single pass system could bring it anyehre in the range of 17-22 micromhos (or microsiemens) conductivity. A second stage can bring it to around 8 to 10 micromhos, but that would be with relatively new and well serviced membranes.
Regarding ultrapure water: by definition (and/or standards) ultrapure water cannot go above 0.10 micromhos (or microsiemens) conductivity. The purest water has a conductivity of 0.055 micromhos. It cannot be any purer because of the natural dissociation of water into H+ and OH-, which is 10e-07 for each ionic form.
Store bought distilled water will usually have a conductivity between 1 to 3 micromhos.
Ultrapure water is a highly agressive solvent, agressive enough to dissolve nose grease from my glasses! Isn't that something? Now, would one need to rinse records with ultrapure water? My answer is no--not even to rinse a stylus cantilever on a regular basis.
Just use a Groovmaster to clean records, rinse them with tap water and then do another rinse with distilled water. Use the record vacuum cleaner only to suction the distilled water rinse. That's what I do.
For those that don't know me, I have a BS degree in Aquatic Science. That means I am a water quality hydrologist and have worked in the ultrapure water industry.
As usual, Dougdeacon gave the correct answer and it went over most people's heads.
With psychic power and primal intensity,
Psychicanimal: a couple of points regarding your discussion above.
First, I believe you're confusing Aquafina with Dasani.
Aquafina is reverse osmosis (RO) purified water to which minerals have been ADDED in order to improve taste!Dasani does indeed add minerals "for taste," but I'm quite sure Aquafina does not.
As usual, Dougdeacon gave the correct answer and it went over most people's heads.except that Dougdeacon says,
As Viridian knows...lab grade water is a powerful solvent that's actually unsafe to drink.Which would be totally true if by "unsafe to drink" he actually meant to say "completely safe to drink."
I drank mostly ultrapure water for the five years I worked at a virology lab, and can confidently attest that--except for an intractable case of audiophilia--I'm none the worse for it. And no, the water did not "leach all the minerals out of my body" as the well-intentioned hydrophobic (or is that ultrapure-ophobic) masses insist it will. That is complete and utter nonsense.
And on a more general note, I'm always surprised that whenever the subject of purified water comes up around here, no one links to member Justin_time's amazing contribution: Finding Pure Water for Record Cleaning. This masterful discussion should be required reading for anyone truly interested in this subject.
Well then, I got Aquafina confused. I don't buy water. Still, commercial RO water is around 17-20 micromhos and steam distilled a much better buy for record cleaning and car batteries. When I worked making ultrapure water the guys that didn't want to go to work drank lots of ultrapure water to get diarrhea. Ultrapure water will not 'leach minerals out of the body' inasmuch one should not drink distilled water because 'the body needs minerals'. Minerals move in and out of cell membranes via active transport, for the most part. I drank ultrapure water every now and then to flush my kidneys. It's very potent for that. I would not advise anyone to constantly drink gallons of it, though.