Hi Mattnshilp,
I have really enjoyed your posts and videos. Have you had the opportunity or desire to review / listen to any Nordost products? Since you seem to be on a footers detour now I would like to know how the Sort Kones and Sort Fut compare to the Stillpoints, IsoAcoustics and others you have had in your system.
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Linn and Meridian are both hard to come by. I’ve thought of them several times. For servers, I think part of the issue is that they are proprietary. You need an entire server
dac infrastructure to make it work. Even so, they both have great reputations and I’d love to hear the new references meridian DAC and a linn Server. I’ll try.
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Benjamin from Mojo Audio here...
Just got one of our demo Mystique v3 DACs back from review.
We’ll be sending it out to Matt on Monday.
As soon as one of our demo Deja Vu music servers comes back, we’ll be sending it to Matt as well.
Looking forward to reading his impressions.
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Matt, I can possibly get you the Linn set up. I've head the ref Meridian a bunch and it's not my cup of tea at all. |
Lot of this footer are also rack + gear dependent , also how you place them under your gear.
I was playing with the position of the stillpoints ultra ss under my meitner ma2 & the positions of the footers can shape the sound quite a bit. Needs quite a bit of patience.
Would be nice if you can audition the Linn klimax . I've heard it a couple of times & it did sound very good.
Also waiting to hear your views on the Mojo stuff.
All the best
Cheers |
Thanks Neoshah!
100% agrees! Footers are EVERYRHING dependent. Rack, gear, location under gear, etc. I’m trying to be as methodical as I can be. You guys know that I try to do things as scientifically and reproducibly as I can. That’s why I renamed my YouTube channel The Audiophile OCD. LOL.
I think that I can give a general feel for the footers and Racks that should be used as a guide. I have found CLEAR advantages to some footers over others. So there are definitely better footers out there. I’m trying to identify those and then chose the best for my gear and my rack (or new rack). And report, as usual, along the way.
I look forward to the Mojo. I’ll try it in both my home and office systems. They are very different. |
I agree on placement of footers. I was told to try and place at least one under the transformer if the can work. Made sense to me, but in most cases we just place them next to the feet on the cabinet. Also, I recommend only using three unless you can adjust the height. That's the only way to make sure you get a solid connection between the foot and the rack/platform typically.
You can go crazy on cords, cable, feet and cable elevators etc...., but be careful how much you spend and make sure that it's worth it. All too often we start to spend an extra 500 on feet, plus 700 on a powe cord and for that 1200 alone, you may have been able to get much better sound, just purchasing a better component.
In Matt's case and others on this board, you guys are already maxing out a lot of your budget on the components and want to spend this extra to get the last bit of goodness. That said, for many, you can just spend an extra few thousand on your source and get even better sound with the ability to later on do the accessory upgrades. That's still where I"m kind of at.
I have only one specialty cord that will go on my The Memory Player and then I'll have to see if I keep the Ayre AX5/20 or upgrade (if it is one and I'm told it's a no brainer) to the new VAndesteen mono blocks (to be released in a few months). Silly for me to start getting new cables before I know which components I'm going to be using.
So many of you are here to figure out which DAC to get etc... Not all of use can afford or want to afford the DaVinci that Matt went with. Honestly, I would't purchase anything new from them for all the reasons and problems mentioned in this thread as well as others. Plenty of great options for most budgets have been discussed here from Empirical Audio to Ayre to Brinkman to Lampizator to the lower priced gear too. It's funny, but I'd also love to hear The Memory Player mini as a server with their own stand alone DAC as I be it's a killer for the money. Heck the mini server maxes out at 3500 or so I think and they may even be willing to move a bit on that (I have no clue, but it never hurts to ask for help). That has all their software goodies and even their defragmenting hard drive which is amazing for the price. That's the Aurender X100 territory as well as some of the new ones coming in. |
Interesting.....
In a methodical and calculated plan to try moving my equipment to the front of my room I have started to test some of the issues I anticipate. The first being that I never ran a third dedicated outlet in the front of my room between the two dedicated 20 amp lines I ran for my amps. I’m a dope but it is what it is. I have 3 choices: 1) run both amps off of one outlet/circuit and the other outlet/circuit goes to the conditioner feeding the preamp/DAC/Server, 2) run the amps off of their current dedicated lines but plug the conditioner for the preamp/DAC/Server into one of the two same outlets, 3) run another circuit/outlet for the preamp/DAC/Server.
Tried 1 and it dramatically compromised performance. My amps suck MASSIVE current; and the two monoblocks aren’t good at sharing one 20 amp circuits goodies. It’s like two adults sucking a shake from the same straw - the straw will just collapse under the overwhelming vacuum and neither will get any milkshake.
2 is not an option as it would do essentially the same thing considering that the DAC, server AND preamp will draw enough current to affect whatever amp is sharing the outlet. Not even trying.
So so now I need to run another line. Sigh.....
BUT it was an awesome lesson. We will repeat the same test next week with Merrill’s new statement class D amps. They are crazy efficient and crazy good! I am super curious to see if they are immune to current sharing unlike most, if not all, class A/AB amps.
The difference through a single circuit was not subtle! Dynamics were stifled, the soundstage partially collapsed, and the whole system sounded softer! So anyone considering running some dedicated 20 amp lines for your amp or amps should definitely go for it. It’s probably the biggest, cheapest upgrade you can do!! Improve accuracy, dynamics and staging. Spend the little extra and get the best outlets you can afford; they do matter. I have Furutech GTX-D NCF outlets. |
Stooner, the MemPlayer guys will soon offer a turnkey solution for the full suite of software that you can use on your existing PC server. I can tell you is a killer. Not chickenfeed but FAAARRR less expensive than buying the Mem Player 64 hardware solution.
They will also offer a USB stick solution for slotting ability that can be used to put your existing JRiver implementation on STEROIDS! It will be VERY attractively priced.
The MemPlayer goodies are being democatized. High SQ for every budget. |
Hi Matt, I suspect that the Merril Element 118 class D prototypes might be a little less demanding of your AC than your class A/B Burmesters.
Even without their final Power Factor Correction (PFC) circuits, secondary regulators, and various other proprietary subcircuits still to be integrated, the amps should achieve an efficiency of at least 75%. Once the devices are finalized, efficiency might eventually reach somewhere between 85% and 95%.
This is not to say that Element 118 monos won't benefit from being each fed through a dedicated line to maximize isolation, and minimizing cross-talk, noise, etc... But depression of transients and low level detail might be less of an issue than with your Burmester amps sharing AC circuits with each other or with your line level components.
G.
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Hey Guido. I agree. I am assuming they will be less sensitive to current restrictions as well considering their super high efficiency design. If that’s the case it is a huge advantage for that design for those who can’t arrange dedicated circuits. Plus the amp is REALLY good! Stay tuned.
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Matt, sort of a shame you've introduced more variables by moving around. Had been looking forward to impressions of the Mystique v3 DAC. Hopefully, you can compare redbook and hi-res PCM to DaVinci.
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JH901. I’ve been moving around the whole thread. It’s always done meticulously and with purpose. And everything is compared A/B with all variables kept exactly the same. My side comparisons happen when DAC or server comparisons are complete. And every comparison is ALWAYS done with all other variables set in stone. Only one thing changed at a time when doing formal comparisons.
The Mustique V3 DAC has been shipped and will arrive shortly. I will post impressions when ready.
Stay tuned. |
Matt, if you run that third dedicated circuit, then I would be interested in knowing whether you experience a more forward presentation, brightness, or brittleness in SQ when the circuit first comes on line. I just finished having three dedicated circuits installed. When I plugged my monos into their dedicated circuits I experienced what I described in the first sentence. When I plug the monos into a power conditioner plugged into one of those dedicated circuits the SQ improves markedly. I'm now running a burn in strategy on the amp dedicated circuits which will involve driving the amps through the power conditioner for 500 hours on each dedicated circuit. (The third circuit has the DAC/PSU/Preamp running through it.) Guido may have experienced something similar in his system, based on PMs we've exchanged. Guido, if I have that wrong please correct me.
BTW very pleased with the Antipodes DX3. |
Al, you are correct, when I moved into my new home in SC, I plugged each of my ROwland M925 monos into a dedicated 20A circuit, with a third circuit used for my line-level devices.
At first blush, I did detect a certain amount of hardness in the overall tembre. Within 3 to 4 weeks the hardness tapered off gradually and the tembre bloomed, and eventually it very much surpassed what the system was able to deliver in my previous home, where I had one dedicated circuit plus one shared line.
I should point out though, that my equipment had been in storage for six months between the old set up and the new one. So, it is possible that some of the initial anomalies and subsequent settling had to do with the electronic having regressed, and then re-broken in.
Guido |
Thanks, Guido for the clarification. My system was only out of service a few hours to move the equipment from one room to the completed audio room. |
I’ve been moving around the whole thread. It’s always done meticulously and with purpose. And everything is compared A/B with all variables kept exactly the same. My side comparisons happen when DAC or server comparisons are complete. And every comparison is ALWAYS done with all other variables set in stone. Only one thing changed at a time when doing formal comparisons. @mattnshilp Given the number of posts in this thread, the nearly four calendar years since its inception and your meticulous standards, can you state at this time the answer to your post question? In other words, to date and in your opinion, what is "the absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD"? If you can elaborate as to why, that too would be appreciated. Thank you. |
Gdhal - my current reference is my Light Harmonic Davinci2 DAC being fed via a Light Harmonic Lightspeed 20G usb cable from a fully tweaked out Memory Player MP64.
It is the best red book (as well as high res and DSD) I have ever heard. It’s natural, dynamic, spacious, engaging, layered and just gives that lost in the music moment over and over again. Yes, it’s that good! For those that wonder, it is the most analog digital I have ever heard. It sounds more like a turntable then a digital source.
That said, there are still some DAC’s and servers I have not heard and can not, yet, comment on. I will continue to try dacs and servers until I have heard everything there is to hear. And just about then, a new technology or product will come out that will peak my interest and this will go on and on. Lol.
Guido, you were my Sensei who taught me the importance of a lengthy bun in process. I don’t listen to anything critically until it has 750-1000 hours on it. Yes, 1000 hours. It makes a difference. So I don’t doubt at all that a new circuit would require a burn in period.
I am going to run a new circuit. I have already ordered my Square D 20 amp breaker, I will use one of my EP ground filters (they really do work), ordered a 30 foot run of cryo treated 10/2 Romex with ground, Furutech GTX-D-NCF outlet, and the matching NFC plate and cover. I will plug a space heater onto it for a month and let it burn in. 👍🏻 |
Hello again.
I don't follow a lot of forums or threads on the web, but of all the threads i've followed so far, this one thread where a sensible approach is maintained most of the time . So congrats & all the best to all & above all matt & also on his video channel. I'm glad the effort you are putting in to extracting the best form your setup, a lot of it reconfirms my beliefs as well.
A question . Why aren't you using a balanced power solution in your home as in your clinic?
Asking as i'm also making a new room would be nice to understand & learn form your experience.
Thanks
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Hello Matt... I'll drink [fizzy San Pellegrino] to that... Here's to real love of sound and music, and our ever-patient quest for audio Nirvana!
G.
G. |
Matt, you said "I will plug a space heater onto it for a month and let it burn in." Considering your future is likely to include trying more equipment and presumably also cable changes, why not purchase something like the Audiodharma Cable Cooker so you can condition your cables over the course of a few days, instead of a month with a space heater. Your first task for the cooker could be to condition the Romex you plan to use in the wall, as well as the GTX outlet. Just a suggestion. https://www.thecablecooker.com/how-does-the-cable-cooker-work/ |
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Just read it Steve. Congrats! I agree with his assessment. It is an exceptional DAC and deserves the praise it got. |
great write up. I found the discussion about the digital volume control interesting. I love my ODSE/SE and miss it every now and then, but I do love my Ayre QX5/20. Just different sounds. |
At $9000, the Ayre QX-5 Twenty is an outright bargain
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I tend to agree. Many give me a hard time when I say I like it better than anything under 20k so far, but I honestly do. I haven't heard the TotalDac though. I like it better than Brinkmann, but the Brinkman is a bit more 'musical', but not nearly as detailed. I'll take it over the Berkley Ref mk 2 also. |
Cstooner...tell us more about your MP64 transport! |
It's still being build. Looking forward to getting it, but in no rush. It's going to be loaded with everything they have to offer. It will be very interesting to hear the differences between the DAC's considering ones built in and then there is the Ayre, which to my ears is just an outstanding unit. I was lucky to get to speak with Charlie before he passed about his design and where they put the money when coming up with the idea. Most of the engineering is past my level, but he was able to explain things to me that I could understand. Sam does the same thing when I have questions and he asks Mark. I need a translator at times. Even when Matt and I go back and forth, I need a translator, lol...:). j/k....well, sort of.
I'll get it and set it up and let it burn in. Then I can share my thoughts in a system that isn't at Matt's price level. I have always been about getting the best quietly signal for your system as even good speakers can then sound great. I'm also a big believer in amplification. I"m not like most who say get the most expensive speakers you can afford adn then skimp on the other stuff if needed. There are some great values in all products categories, but not all fit together.
I'm going on a limb with MP64 Transport as I've never heard it, but I know Matt and Richfield's ears pretty good and I've met both a few times etc.... so I have a strong idea how it should sound, but in my system, I'm still a bit scared, lol.... I'm not selling the Ayre until the MP is burned in and I've been able to listen to it a bit. That's why I will make my impressions and share. I have some more major surgery on the 8th of March, so I will have some time to audition eventually, lol. :)...This will be my 3rd in the last 2 years. Thanks MS, lol.
PS, stay healthy all! ;) |
Good luck with the surgery. I mean that!
I have my home built quality server that a pal set me up on with LPSUs and to that I have added the MP software suite and clock mapper. Even with the shitty SMPS reinstalled to facilitate OS loading and setup phase, it sounds about as good as the Win16 AO (core mode) setup WITH JRiver.
I expect to go fully LPSU soon again and will wait for that performance leap. If you search this thread, you will see I have been foisting this MP64 idea on Matt for 2 years! I had never heard it, but a VERY high end analog designer buddy explained the approach to me and I was intellectually hooked. This is the road not taken by anyone else in this game ...this is raw intelligence applied to an identified set of problems.
Bit perfection is a joke! |
For those interested, the Mojo Mystique V3 has arrived and is warming up. |
Winson, thanks very much. Greatly appreciated. Glad that you have such high praise for the software. It sure seems special. I have a couple of friends who are looking at the Memory Player Mini to get the suite with a well built player that can be upgraded over time at an affordable price.
Matt keeps on truckin' |
I have Clock Mapper too and am waiting on recommendations for the optimised Bios setting for my MoBo...both from them and from a very computer savvy (Professional) friend who is also an audiophile.
The Mini seems to be a GREAT entry point too. Its a NUC loaded up with the software. Of course, if they start with any decent LPSU powered quad core Server, they are already a step ahead. Load up those slots! LoL |
Ctsooner,
I agree regarding the importance of high quality electronics (preamplifier and amplifier) in the signal path. I do feel that there’s an overemphasis placed on speakers in audiophile threads/discussions at times. Obvious each link of the audio chain matters. If I had to choose one or the other, I’d select great electronics with "good" speakers rather than good electronics with "great" speakers. This puts me in a minority position but it’s based on many listening experiences.
Regarding the Ayre QX5-20 you’re no doubt very impressed with it. I’d like to hear it in a direct comparison with the LampiZator Atlantic. This would be quite an informative and interesting listening session.
Charles |
I have heard teh Atlantic, but not in the same room and system as mine. I personally like the micro and macro detail the the Ayre just nails. I read that review of Steve's incredible ODSX and Plaskin calls his QX5 a bit forward. I don't get that in my system at all and I have an Ayre AX5/20 running it. If a recording is mastered forward, then it will give me that. If it's not, then it won't present that like many others will. When I make a statement like that, I realize that I wasn't in the room when the music I"m listening to was mastered. I can't know how they wanted it, but these are mostly tunes that I'm familiar with on many systems and if something is mostly 'not forward', then I'm making a broad based assumption that it probably wasn't mastered that way. Visa versa.
I now will sell my Ayre QX5, but like the Empirical Audio ODSE/SE, I will miss it greatly. As for the Atlantic vs, I think the biggest difference is that the Lampi doesn't have quite the detail that the Ayre has and the Ayre's noise floor is the lowest of the two by a bit. Charlie builds a lot of his own power filtering in the mids on up into all his units now. The QX5 has special filtering in it. I also liked that it's got one of the best streamers built into it. It sounds better by a smidge than the Aurender N100 that I heard side by side. I also feel it's best in balanced mode. The one thing I like about Ayre is that it's neither tube nor SS. That is the Ayre sound and it's what Charlie has always been about, even back in his Avalon Accoustic days. He's one of the few who were able to figure that all out. His diamond stages really pushed that concept forward in his designs.
I just can't do tubes anymore. I love many of the tube designs and I owned Jadis, Quicksilver, Aesthetix, Conrad Johnson and Audio Research along with Counterpoint (best of most if not for breaking down monthly). Until I got the Ayre gear a few years ago, tubes were all I owned. Heck, I'd die for the Vandersteen 7 mk2's with Richards amp that is a tube/hybrid type of amp. I have enjoyed the Lampi the few times I've heard them. Would I own one? Of course I would. Many DAC's I'd own, but I do feel that in the prices ranges I've ended up playing in, I got the right one for my system.
It's crazy as with MS, it takes me so long to write something like this, so please bear with me when I'm off on a tangent at times and if my thoughts aren't always in sync. Thanks. |
I do feel that there’s an overemphasis placed on speakers in audiophile threads/discussions at times. Obvious each link of the audio chain matters. If I had to choose one or the other, I’d select great electronics with "good" speakers rather than good electronics with "great" speakers. This puts me in a minority position but it’s based on many listening experiences. Charles, +1. Add me to your member count for this 'minority' position. : ) |
Ctsooner, You re in sync, no worries. My comment regarding the Ayre QX5-20 and Lampizator Atlantic comparison actually isn’t about determining which is better. That is pure subjectivity and taste oriented. My curiosity revolves around their very contrasting design (topological and circuitry)and approach and how this would play out in reproducing music. Each would have individual areas of strength but it’s their "overall presentation" that I’d find fascinating to hear side by side.
Charles |
There are 3 Atlantic models. The basic Atlantic with SS rectifier, the Atlantic+ ...same as before but with decent tube rectifier and the Golden Atlantic...same as A+ but with expensive parts, fancy footers, Flight case and top grade Kron 5u4g rectifier.
There is a step up at each level that one can hear in head to head comparisons. |
Guys I just realized that this thread is 4 years old and has almost 4k posts! That's just crazy and fun to say the least. Heard a lot of DAC's this weekend at Cam Jam. Wasn't impressed with most of them to be very frank. I felt very let down. There were a couple that were very nice, but you can tell that so many DAC's in the 2-8k range are not great. There are many that are of course, but overall (in show conditions though), I felt let down by so many of them. I was surprised by what IEM and headphone companies were using to showcase their top gear. The Cayin stuff was really fun. Not 'the best DAC', but we often digress in the thread and let it meander a bit. I just thought I'd share that so many of the DAC's in this thread are outstanding values at various price points.
I spent a lot of time on Sunday at the Schitt table. I know I'll get flamed for this, but I really felt let down. I heard their top offerings in the most recent form I'm assuming and wasn't impressed. I had borrowed aChord 2 to walk around with (well, roll around. Those who know me realize I can't walk by myself anymore, lol and I also sit a TON). That smoked the Yggy with that big amp they had. My own AK380cu DAP was more musical with more micro and macro detail. Maybe it's just different tastes for everyone type of thing. I spoke with a few close friends who are reviewers for headphones and IEM's and they don't know the hype, but didn't love the products, so I know it's not just me.
The real point is that I"m not disparaging anything, but again, it really made a huge statement that I'm blessed to have found this thread to sift through the chaff that is out here in the digital world. Digital is harder to pull off than analog I feel. Guys like Steve and the Lampi guy are in another class. I also feel it takes some of the larger companies who have R&D budgets and economy of scale to pull off great digital for say under 2k (Ayre) or the MSB's of the world etc... Some companies only do digital adn they too get it right....Aurender and some others. It really hit home for me, what a great designer Steve is as his DAC, and I'm sure his soon to be released headphone amp are mind boggling. |
ct - thanks for the kind words. Since the ODSX review came out, I tried a different player software than Jriver. Minimserver with Linn Kinsky. This actually sounds more live and more impactful than Jriver. Not sure any reviewer would be willing to do this though. A bit more work to install both of these and configure them. This is yet another datapoint that shows that the volume DSP in these players mucks-up the sound quality. I wish all of them simply had a bypass for the volume control rather than maximum setting. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I spent a lot of time on Sunday at the Schitt table. I know I'll get flamed for this, but I really felt let down. I heard their top offerings in the most recent form I'm assuming and wasn't impressed. You won't get flamed at all. The Schiit Yggdrasil isn't for everyone. It's akin to what Jerry has to say about the Grateful Dead. “We're like licorice. Not everybody likes licorice, but the people who like licorice really like licorice.” |
Thanks G. I really wanted to love it like you guys do too. It's all good.
Steve, I totally agree with you. Do you think it just has to do with adding more layers and chances to mess up the signal? If not, why do you think it's like that? Why wouldn't they offer a bypass to go purer? |
“We're like licorice. Not everybody likes licorice, but the people who like licorice really like licorice.” Like most things, there is licorice and then there is fine licorice. ct - It is the DSP feature of volume control that virtually all of these players force your data to be processed through. I think it's just easier for them to set 0dB for DSP code than to bypass it. Also, it takes yet another knob in the GUI to bypass it. Maybe they are afraid that some users will inadvertently set this knob and blow up their speakers, even though the volume control is set to low. Liability... Steve N. Empirical Audio |
@ct, Would you consider letting us know which DACs you did find playing above the also rans? |
I actually don't remember the name of a couple of them as I'm still new to the personal audio world. The Walker gear was outstanding. Some of the DACs that sounded nice from 100hz up were with the Stat's and I've yet to hear a stat that has enough bass for me ( sold my Stax a couple of years ago.). Like I said, I was impressed by the Cayin gear. |
Matt - Any update on the performance of the Mojo DAC since you've had it warming up for a week now? I believe it was a reviewed model so it should have already been burned in and just required some time to settle into your system. Thanks and keep up the good work!
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I read that review of Steve's incredible ODSX and Plaskin calls his QX5 a bit forward. I don't get that in my system at all and I have an Ayre AX5/20 running it. If a recording is mastered forward, then it will give me that. If it's not, then it won't present that like many others will.
You have to ask yourself, if there is no depth to the recording, can a DAC synthesize depth? I think it's kind of like asking the DAC to deliver detail in a recording that is not there. I think it is more likely that the improved depth is the result of a better D/A. The ODSX is more expensive, so you should expect that. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Do you think it just has to do with adding more layers and chances to mess up the signal? If not, why do you think it's like that? Why wouldn't they offer a bypass to go purer?
Volume control is a check-box that every playback software must have I guess. I think there might be some that believe it's a liability to have a volume defeat/bypass button because some users might think the volume is active and set low and then blow-up their speakers because it is actually bypassed. I'm sure that coloring the sound with volume DSP is not intentional, but I have heard it many times, more times than not.
At shows I have used DSP equalizers and crossovers and they always seem to color the sound, even when they are set flat. I avoid them now for that reason. I think the least coloration I have heard from an volume DSP is Amarra, Sonic Studio. I believe that many manufacturers don't have resolving enough or low-noise systems that they can tell whether their DSP software is coloring the sound or not. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
@audioengr
Hi Steve,
You mentioned the ODSX review. Can you point us to it? I couldn't find it doing a quick Google search and didn't see a link on your website either.
For those of you following along, Steve's DACs ARE special. I've heard them at least a few times at Newport and I still remember how amazingly clear and pristine the sound was, just beautiful. Not analytical in any way, but also not lacking in detail or air. If you get a chance, check his gear out. You will be very pleasantly astonished. |
DSP in Roon is quite wonderful. Just an FYI. |
