A DAC that crushes price vs. performance ratio

Teajay, Since your review is out now and because this thread has served its purpose to those wanting info about the Lab12 DAC, I would kill this thread. 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/why-do-members-hijack-threads

The whole thing was a hoax.  Old DAC re-heated.  Let's talk about new products.  

@teajay I have the Lab12 Dac1 Special Edition and Lab12 Gordian since last May, and the Lab12 Integre4 Amplifier with the KT150 output tubes since March.  Speakers are Audium Comp 7 passive. Streaming Qobuz Studio via a Bluesound Node 2i as streamer only to the Lab12 Dac1 SE via coax. Works great and absolutely no issues.

Thank you for your review of the Lab12 Dac1 SE and more recently the MHDT Orchid. Is there a possibility you will compare the just released Lab12 Dac1 Reference to the Special Edition version and the MHDT Orchid?  That would be of real interest to me. Thanks again. 

@teajay I forgot to mention that one of the reviewers of the Lab12 Dac1 SE said there was no anti jitter circuitry after the inputs. I can’t verify that but nevertheless I put a iFi spdif iPurifier at the input end of the Bluejeans coax.

Subject to my own bias I felt there was more ‘air’, better leading edges and sustain. It seemed reproduction was more ‘organised’ and at the same time more relaxed. More ‘body’ and timbres. I have not removed the iPurifier to verify my impressions as I suffer discomfort from osteoarthritis and tend to avoid crouching at the installation, hence my qualification at the outset.

Maybe you might acquire a iFi spdif iPurifier and if so report if you experience benefit and if so how it might affect your comparisons.

Regarding tubes I already have the necessary converter and seven different NOS tubes two of which are Western Electric 396A, the rest being 2 GE 5670 5-Star, CBS, Raytheon, and Tung-Sol. I had these for experimentation with an iFi iTube. I’m encouraged by your comments and will experiment fairly soon starting with the WE396A.

Reviving this thread.

I know the reviewer moved on to MHDT since but what about the redesigned LAB12 Reference Dac introduced later on? Are there members that have tried the revised dac and your opinions. Thanks.

Just picked up a used LAB12 DAC 1 Reference.  Sold by original owner who bought it May 2021.  Waiting for it to arrive.  I would like to hear from owners there impressions and any suggestions on tube rolling success…or any other comments.

Thanks as well! 

LAB 12 DAC arrived and I have to say Wow!  Glad I picked this DAC up at half price. Couldn’t be happier with the realism and comforting crystal clear sound.  Waiting for some NOS Amperex 6922 gold pins to arrive to see how they perform vs the stock Electro Harmonix 6922.

Playback Design DACs in the Higher End of the Market are one of the best value you can get today.

 

 

I also picked up the Lab 12 DAC 1 Reference and am really enjoying it.    

Does it compete with $10k DACs. ?   I don't know the answer to that but it definitely has a unique presentation.    So many songs that were tough to listen to are a lot better with this DAC, it's smooth and very forgiving to poor recordings.  It has a great bottom end,  drums and bass guitar have real delineation and texture .  

With great recordings it sounds fantastic.    Sounds "bigger" than the DAC it replaced .   Imaging goes way beyond the speaker boxes.   This DAC is a good example of something that measures worse than the DAC it replaced but for whatever reason sounds much better.

The first review was just posted for the new Mystique X SE DAC in Audiophilia.

The reviewer used to own a Mystique EVO Pro as his reference DAC but he was to taken by the new Mystique X SE he sold his EVO Pro and bought the demo unit.

Needless to say he awarded the X SE Star Component..

More reviews and awards should be posting over the next few months :^)

https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2022/8/13/608mtkw85c1oncpqf68o9b80nng10b

Same as Lemay Audio at Montreal Audio Fest using a $1300 portable as reference DAC the iFi Diablo to replace $20,000 DAC. 

this is madness. 😂 

@oddiofyl 

Yes, it's a lot more comfortable listening to this Lab12 Dac1 Reference compared to my previous Musician Pegasus. 

I've compared it to Weiss DAC 502 and MSB Discrete and I don't feel the Dac1 loses out to them. It does not do DSD and does not have pre-amp, but who cares. 

@oddiofyl @auroravengeance I had a chance to demo the Lab12 dac ref.

The colorful tonality and midrange was gorgeous, but it was too bright in my system.

I wonder if changing the tubes would help?

I still have the original tubes in it.    Being bright is not my experience.   This is why home demo are so important.   I'm curious to learn what you do go with

@macdude I have rolled tubes in my Lab12 ref dac and it has made a difference.  In my case it wasn’t because it was too bright. The stock EH tubes just didn’t show what the dac was capable of.  I ended up with french made Dario Miniwatt (Philips) E188CC as my favorite but the Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8’ s also sound excellent and are easier/less expensive to buy.  Siemens E88CC were good but not as warm and heading towards being on the bright side.  I will be trying some Russian 6H23n V rockets for fun since Lab12 designs their equipment around russian tubes.  Mine is playing through a Raven Blackhawk now which is a pretty warm amp….i do love the sound of this dac…good luck with it all.

@tksteingraber Thanks for the tube rolling tips. I will check out the Dario miniwatt tubes.

@macdude they can be listed as RT, RTC, Phillips, adzcom as well and  will have the french factory code etched on glass similar to Amperex.  Brent Jesse has them in stock under Mazda french brand.  They are $$$   Good luck

Good suggestions on the Mazda tubes.  I had some for my preamp from Brent Jessee and they were great

i have found that old stock tungsram tubes from the hungary plant are very very close to mazda/adzams sonically, and while not cheap, are not nosebleed pricey like remaining mazda’s these days... they are very good, but not better than siemens/philips of the day... they are super expensive more due to their rarity

@tksteingraber 

I did not change the tubes in my DAC. 

But last time I used a Furutech ADL USB cable to connect my desktop to the USB input of the DAC and did find it a tad too bright. I then connected my desktop to a Singxer SU1 DDC and used it to connect to the coaxial input of the DAC, the sound was decidedly more pleasing and less bright. 

I bought an Oyaide Neo Class S USB cable, tested it both direct USB and with the Singxer. The Oyaide sounded really good with direct USB, smooth, just a touch brighter than with DDC/Coaxial but with better soundstage and imaging. Ditched the Singxer and used only USB cable now. So, the quality of the USB cable did matter in my case. 

@auroravengeance good to hear you found your solution.  The Oyaide USB sounds like a good cable.  I use an Audioquest Coffee I picked up used and am happy as well. Enjoy your DAC!

funny -- this thread was started by @teajay in 2018

are we reasonable to assume the subject dac is now flattened and dried out roadkill for the new boys on the block? 😂🤣😁

@jjss49 Not sure how the older SE model sounded, but at least after acquiring this Dac1 Reference I no longer have the urge to upgrade my DAC even if I have the money to upgrade to more expensive DACs like for example Weiss DAC-502 MKII. 

But it seems like this DAC is sensitive to cabling though. I suspect those who did not really enjoy this DAC did not explore different cablings. The Oyaide Class S USB I mentioned above seemed to work well with this. 

I also gained performance increase with a decent power cord. I use Real Cable Citrine with this DAC and it seems like a good match. 

Lost me at the chip.

This ref version with the old chips is quite tasty…more lifelike than any other DAC I have heard which isn’t a ton...it is no slouch.

@auroravengeance don’t forget to upgrade the fuse big difference!  QSA yellow, SR purple to name a couple.  I discovered a wonderful Chinese graphene/crystals fuse for a song on Aliexpress if you don’t mind buying from them. As good or better than the QSA yellow to me.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2023/03/12/lab12-dac1-review/?amp

Recent review.  

@auroravengeance 

I have a 1.5 Meter Audioquest Coffee ,  It is a little laid back and Not at all Bright and has a Deep & wide soundstage.
 I have the LAB12 DAC 1 SE, which is GREAT.
My pre is a McIntosh MX151, which is quite laid back. So with the Coffee, in my setup  it can be a little too laid back, but if your system is Bright, it should be PERFECT. LMK I think it might be perfect for your setup.

PM me

@grey9hound 

Very happy with my Oyaide Class S and I prefer a slight bright presentation because I do listen to orchestral and metal. 

I am close to acquire a brand new Integre4 MKII, I think it would be a killer combo. I've heard the Lab12 Dac1 with Lab12 Pre1 and Suara, don't think anything else comes close to it at their price point. 

Sounds great. Good Luck . I think that I would love that myself (LAB Pre1+Integre4 MKII)

$1k portable DAC for $300k setup ? 

( iFi iDSD Diablo ) 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/lemay-audio-room