David ten,
I sent you a PM earlier you may be busy and hav'nt seen it yet.
Kenny.
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Hello everyone,
I have been looking for a speaker upgrade the last couple of months,I have been involved in this wonderful hobby for about 30yrs,So I owned a fair amount of speakers.
About the only type I have'nt had is OB'S I was seriously considering the pap with the vox full range or the spatial M3 turbo s.
Now that I have read this entire thread and all other info about the DI's,I decided to give Eric a call this morning and ask a few questions,he is a very busy guy but was accommodating.
I ended up buying a set that are gloss metallic black and have all the internal upgrades.I'm looking forward too receiving them and trying them out with my equipment and room.
I haven't heard any of the Tekton speakers and I don't know anybody in my area that has a pair.
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I did buy the gloss black metallic upgraded pair that were on the specials page.I will get them next wed looks like after talking to the freight company.
They were a good deal but I will see if I like them,I'm still a skeptical.
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I have skimmed back through this thread trying to find any specific crossover points for the DI's but found no detailed info.
I asked Eric over the phone where the tweeter array crosses over at and he told me 400hz.I would imagine the 2 mids don't play up as high as you might think.I would think the 2 10 inch woofers are probably below 250hz or maybe lower.
I'm just trying to learn all I can about this speaker,If anybody has more info please chime in.
Kenny.
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Hello all,
I received my Di's today,packed well and no damage.
I will set them up tomorrow and give them music too break them in.
Kenny. |
Oop's I forgot to add that the center tweeter is more a super tweeter,and is probably crossed much higher than the other 6.
I think that might be a very good combo.I will be powering my set with one of three sets of class d mono's that I currently own,just recently sold all my class a and tubes and not looking back.
Kenny.
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Looks like there is a scanspeak ring radiator tweeter that has a fs around 400 to 420 hz.Offcourse the DI's have a array of 6 tweeters,I think the middle one is crossed higher like a super tweeter would be,the speaker is a 4 way design.I don't know a lot about speaker design enough to grasp this quite yet but once I get mine I will figure it out.
I started into class d amps about 4 yrs ago with a pair of nc400,I have a pair of bel canto ref600m and a i have a new red dragon s500.
I know that class d has come a long way in the last few years and it also has needs for improvements going forward.I know full well it is'nt everyone's cup of tea.I practically gave away several amps on the used market because they did'nt beat my class d amps.
Recently a pass lab xa30.8 and first watt j2 as examples.I have been extremely blessed and owned all kinds of gear in my 30yrs in this hobby and it's still all about the music for me.There is a lot of hype in this industry and I like what I like if it sounds the best to me and invokes the greatest amount of emotion and involvement with my music.
Just my honest opinion,Kenny. |
Teajay,
I'm very happy for you that you have discovered such a interesting system that I can see you are truly passionate about.I have read most of your reviews and I truly enjoy and respect your humble and passionate writing style.
I receive my pair of DI's next wed,I will give them ample time to see if I like them,still a little doubtful.I will give this thread a full review regardless of the outcome.
Kenny.
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Winlock,
congratulations on your new speakers,I hope that you really enjoy them and the music you enjoy with them.
I receive my Di's on wed and I'm looking forward to hear what all the hubub is all about.
Kenny.
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They look really good,top quality paint job.I bought black metallic gloss, probably a Ferrari color.
They have very good quality woodwork with solid construction and looks like the 6inch mids and tweeter array are in there own chamber and the 2 woofers have the volume of the majority of the cabinet.
I just now got them hooked up in my main system moving my Zu Defs too my 2nd system.Pretty late,wife went to bed so I will play with them tomorrow.
I'm lucky I have a really good wife that supports my passions,and she really likes the looks of them and they go well with the other decor of the room,can't beat that.She said if they sound as good as they look we will have a winner.
I'm going too move my pair of subs back in,didn't need them with the defs.I'm not working tomorrow can't hardly wait,51 yr old kid with a new toy.
Kenny.
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Buds,
Congrats on your upgrade to Di's.I've had mine for a week,truly digging there Sound.
I have mine 1ft from the back wall,with great results and I have tried them at 5 inch like yours with no problems as well but did notice the stage not as deep.
Our room is 20x25x9 that opens to the kitchen and the walkway to the kitchen is close too the left speaker so I really can't have them pulled out any farther.This wouldn't be a good room for panels or ob's but I knew that when we bought the house.
I'm wandering where other Di owners ended up positioning there speakers.
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Hello all,
I think Mac made a very valid statement about the DI's placement.
I think distance apart and toe in probably affect their sound more so than distance from back wall.
Kenny.
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Walter,
Congrats on your purchase,that should be a interesting comparison with 2 speakers that are more similar than what I've got and have recently owned in the past 5 yrs.
The Di's only need 30 to 50 hrs on them to loosen up those fabric surrounds,and form the caps on the crossovers and they should be singing nicely.
I hope you like them and all the best too you,
Kenny.
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Are those the Di SE's.
I'll guess sb acoustics will be saleing a bunch of tweeters to Eric.
Kenny.
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Mike,
Yes They do like scanspeak tweeters and mids,once I zoomed in on the picture I could see them better.
I bet these are going to sound crazy good.Please share details when you can.
Kenny.
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Granny,
I bet they sound very good. My wife would cry, not laugh, at first sight. No way they could could ever be in our living room. I would love to hear them however.
I would love to read about your journey rewiring and redoing the crossovers on these,oh my take forever. LOL.
I'm a lucky guy my wife thought they are very cool looking and already asked me if I'm going to get a pair.
Kenny.
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Eric,
Then, on the flip side... I check in again on this Audiogon thread and read garbage about me. How sad! Someone saying I tell "lies" and produce "hype" and "pseudoscience". It's so frustrating to be defamed and slandered like this.
If I where you I would'nt worry one little bit about this,you are always going to have some negative comments no matter how good your products are.Just keep doing what you do and not look back.
Audiophile's are the most picky bunch of folks around,but I'm very happy with my Di's and I honestly turned down a set of Magico q3 instead of.
I'm Intrigued and also interested in your new one on down the road,I can always sale my Zu's and move the Di's too my 2nd system.
Could you give us any details about your new Ulfberhts.
Kenny.
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333.
Thank You for the info they must have 12 inch woofers instead of 10's they are bigger than I thought.
Probably have incredible horz. dispersion and stage along with killer bass.I would love too hear them.
Kenny.
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After hearing about the big boys called the ULFBERHT,
I forgot all about the DI SE model.The SE might fill the gap between the standard model and the Ulfberht.
If anybody has any info on the SE model please let us know.
Kenny.
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Cmss,
I'm sorry to here the DI's didn't work out for you like you hoped they would and I wouldn't feel bad about it if I were you.
Speakers and amps are the most subjective components that we have in our systems and we just like what we like.
I wish you the best and happy listening to you.
Kenny.
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Mdlofnwhr,
Class d is all I have used with my di's,
nc400,bel canto ref600m,and red dragon s500 with outstanding results.The di's are very versatile you could use about any quality amp you would like.
I only have 1 tube amp left after years of using tubes,I have a Yamamoto a09 which is a 300b and I have a modwright kwa100se,I haven't tried either one with the DI's and the only reason I have kept them is I have way more money in upgrades in them then I could ever sale them for.
Kenny.
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Walter,
Sounds too me like you are having fun and listening to some good music.Keep us posted on your results.
Kenny.
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Mac,
I would say that was fast on the MZ2,Let us know how that 1 watt works for you.
I've been looking for a new pre and I have narrowed it down to 2,
ps audio's Bhk and the MZ2.I want a pre that has a headphone amp for the occasional use of headphones.
I hope you enjoy your new toy when you get it.
Kenny. |
Mac,
I believe the 1812's are Eric's top speaker for HT,
even though we all know any of them would be great,just pick your size.
I would like to hear a pair if I ever got the chance.
Kenny.
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David,
My pair of Di's had only one set of terminals,and I did'nt want to add another pair so I carefully drilled a hole below the existing terminals and soldered them directly to the woofer crossover which I upgraded the cap and resistor anyway.You would have to remove the bottom woofer and the woofer crossover is mounted horz. on the crossbrace.The mids and tweeters have there own crossover mounted vertically on the sealed cavity.I did buy a upgraded pair of di's and I don't see any reason to change the internal wiring though.
I did change all 4 woofers to all black ones and I used eminence beta's instead of the blue alpha's, just a personal preference.
I will change some caps on the tweeter and mids crossover,I just haven't got to it yet.
Kenny.
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Lance,
Now Eric hasn't released the SE to dealers only yet so no real specs yet.I think they will be an all scanspeak driver with lwr efficiency probably around 90 to 92 db and might have better crossover components.
I would like to hear a pair even though I'm happy with mine and the Ulfberhts would just be to big for our room.
The SE's should be priced around 6k which is quite reasonable I think.
Kenny.
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David,
I quess I will bite on this cable subject,after many years chasing the latest cables I have reached a firm opinion that as long as my system has decent cables and sold connections it really doesn't matter so much the only real differences are price.
I biwire my di's with a single run of Supra 3.4 on the woofers and a single run of Supra 2.0 on the top end and I have a pair of clear day double shotguns that I have used as well the only difference to my ears is maybe a little more inner detail.
My interconnects and pwr cables are from a fellow audiogoner named Mark Tunis,he makes speaker cables as well,I haven't tried any of those though they look really good.
I hope this helps you,
Kenny.
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David,
I think you will be just fine with the audience cables,I've used some of their pwr cables and they offer a good solid cable for the money.
I've been a avionics tech at a major airline for 30 yrs,so working on most electronics doesn't really intimidate me.
Kenny.
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Mac,
Sounds like you are enjoying your MZ2 right out of the box,
keep us posted on how you like it.
I have it at the top of my shortlist and It's cool to hear that 1 watt is a good one.I used to pwr my Zu druids with a Yamamoto A-08s that uses the 45 tube and is 1.5 watts.
I would like to know how the MZ2 would work with about any solid state amp.
Best of luck and happy listening,
Kenny.
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Charles,
Does'nt the MZ2 sound like it is quite powerful,
just proves to me that all amps are'nt created or rated equally.
I once used the mini torii with my druids,but it would run out of steam if pushed and the Yamamoto had better bass and drive.Both amps having very good strong tubes.
But on the other hand I am still amazed and tap my toes and get goosebumps listening to my DI's every day,they have no right to sound as good as they do.
Kenny.
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Yes they do check the website for details and they make one called the brilliance which is the model down from the doubles.
What size room do you have?
Kenny.
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Teajay,
It's very interesting to hear about the triode labs 2a3,they do make some very solid gear.I had There prototype 7591 based pp a few yrs back that was built all point to point with James outputs and choke with a very heavy duty pwr transformer.I have also owned one of there first 300b stereo designs.I kinda surprised in your position that you have never tried the 2a3.
I have had a couple diff. 2a3 based amps over time and I always found them to be kinda in the middle between the 45 and the 300b,
meaning they can have the midrange and inner glow like the 300b but with more extension on both ends and then also combine the clarity,punch and dynamics that the 45 has but with more pwr.
The 2a3 is just a wonderful tube in my opinion and my very favorite Dht with the right speaker and the DI is the one.I only have one tube amp right now it's the Yamamoto A09 which is a 300b,which I will have to try eventually with the DI's.
I definitely will be getting a MZ2 in the future and can't wait to try with all kinds of pairings.
Enjoy the music,
Kenny.
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Teajay,
I'm with you that horn based speakers aren't my cup of tea either and I started with Khorns and McIntosh,30'yrs ago,and single driver speakers even though there is some very good ones have shortcomings that I find are hard to live with for the long haul.
Charles,
You are so right it does take a very fine speaker to allow this level of fine discrimination amongst very nuanced amps and that certainly includes solid state of various types as well.
I'm still shocked and amazed every single day listening to my DI's,
I can see myself being quite satisfied for a very long time and probably will even buy a 2nd set for my 2nd system.I listen at diff. times of the day and quite sporadically in the summer months,and it would be very nice to have a solid state and tube setup at all times.
I promised Eric that I would write a owners review for his website and I'm still working on it,right now it's way too long and I need to condense it down,Writing is not my cup of tea either'but I do my best.
Kenny.
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Mac,
+1,
The great thing about the DI's is that they give you so many amp options. The not so great thing about the DI's is that they give you so many amp options.
I ordered my MZ2 today and I will get it in about 3 weeks maybe earlier I hope.
iamasif,
Congratulations to you if you have a pair of Di's,
but 16 gauge wire is going to be a little small unless you are biwiring and have 2 sets of speaker terminals.I personally wouldn't use anything smaller than 12 gauge.
I have my pair biwired with 12 gauge going to the woofers only and 14 gauge going to the mids and tweeters.
The emotiva xpa gen 3 is rated at 550 watts into 4 ohms,that will be more pwr than you can ever use so you will be fine.
Kenny.
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iamasif,
The upgrade package consists of a clarity or solen bypass cap on the tweeter input cap and uses a much more heavy duty Janzen or erse coil on the 2nd order woofer crossover along with a little better grade internal wire.Mine were a upgraded pair already when I bought them but I have also upgraded further which is a whole another story.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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Charles,
What I have discovered in owning a variety of Set amps over the yrs is the c core or double c core transformers offer a extra amount of transparency allowing more and or better tone and harmonics,better overall clarity,better defined bass and dynamics and just a more engaging transparent toe tapping get lost in the music type of sound.The James,Hashimoto and Yamura transformers are very good as well but if I had a choice I would try to find a Amp that utilizes the c core type.
Offcourse this is all relative to being a good design,having a good strong pwr supply and of course a good set of tubes.
This is why I will always keep My Yamamoto A09s and I sold the rest.My ultimate goal is to have 2 very good systems at all times,a solid state setup and a tube setup.
Kenny.
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Dracula,
What Amp do you have that uses hashimoto transformers?
Kenny.
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Charles,
I know you have great love for your franks going 8 yrs. but have you had the chance to listen to the dynamo mk2.
Kenny.
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Mac,
I don't have my MZ2 yet I won't get it for 2 to 3 weeks.
I'm kinda like teajay,I have had a few really good 6sn7 based preamps and I have a pretty extensive collection of tubes,I will probably try my very favorite 6sn7 first and that is the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z.These tubes are in current production and they are a little pricey but I found them to give the best sound overall to me and they are very quiet,I don't know how they will do in the MZ2 only one way to find out.
I will use rca 12at7's to start with they probably are the most neutral of the diff. ones I have.
For you the mullards might be the ticket.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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Dracula,
I can tell you the DI's are extremely coherent with no phase interference or resonant issues.I've down some frequency testing on mine with the proper equipment and I'm just amazed with the results.
They sound nothing like the average line array that require very complex crossovers,the DI's crossover is quite simple and I believe Eric has a real winner here,I can see keeping my pair for a long time and I'm a very picky fussy audiophile.I probably in time will buy a 2nd pair for my 2nd system,that's how good I think they are.
Even though I bought a upgraded pair I have upgraded mine further and I won't comment on that because It's Eric's patented design.
If you get a chance to listen to a pair I would highly recommend it.
Kenny.
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Dracula,
Just better parts,no reason to change any crossover points they are exactly where they need to be as Eric designed them,that's the magic of this speaker.I only refined mine a little for personal preferences most people would never need to.
Kenny.
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Teajay,
Thank You for the very well explained magic of the DI's midrange and high frequencies,You nailed it perfectly.
They easily rival any speaker I have ever owned or heard with all the qualities you listed,I'm just simply amazed every time I listen too them.
Kenny.
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Mac,
Looks like you have some very good tubes coming your way should be a very good combo.I'm anxiously awaiting my MZ2,I already have plenty of excellent tubes to roll.
The MZ2 must have one heck of a glorious single watt.
Enjoy the music,
Kenny.
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Mikirob,
It's not over till it's over.
I really love my Di's,they have panel inner detail and delicacy without the panel,they have coaxial and full range driver coherency without the shortcomings and they have speed,dynamics and excellent bass.I no longer need my subs at all.
They are an easy load for about any amp you would want to use.
I had the orangutan about 5 yrs ago,and they are pretty good for a 2 way design but I like my Di's better than any speaker I have ever owned or heard in my 31 yrs in this hobby.
I was pretty skeptical till I got a pair,now I want a 2nd set for my 2nd system and sale my Zu audio def's 4.
If you get a chance you need to listen to a pair,you may very well like them.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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Charles,
Yes I know I've read that thread several times.I owned Druid V's before the def's,I preferred the def's overall.
Both were upgraded to the max,internal wiring,Duelands on the radian compression drivers,damping material on the FRD baskets,and added damping inside cabinets.
They are a pretty good speaker that I have had for about 5 yrs, I've been fascinated for full range single driver speakers for a long time and had to try some but at the end of the day they have shortcomings that I don't care to live with anymore.
They are a little shouty and in your face,they beam the upper frequencies and they don't measure flat they have a 2 to 3 db bump up around the 2k to 4K range,It's the mechanical crossover of the whizzer cone.I get the same basic measurements in 3 diff. Rooms that I have tried them in from our older house to our new house that we have been in for 2yrs.
The in room efficiency rating is 3db lower than advertised also,which is really no big deal they are pretty efficient anyway.
They Sound their best with tube amps especially dht's, really helped smoothe them down a little bit.
They are a unique speaker but with preferring my DI's much more it's time to move on and I don't regret it at all.
Over the years I have owned tannoy's and altec 604's but I know I would still prefer the DI's,just a incredibly magical speaker.
I know your pretty darn happy with your system but if you ever get a chance to listen to a pair of Di's you might like them.
Kenny.
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Vitop,
The DI's will do well with just about any amp tubes or solid state.
They are a very easy load to drive,you just use the amp of your choice and try it.
I only have one tube amp left after many years of using tubes,a Yamamoto A09s which is a 300b.
Here is a list of solid state amps I have used with the DI's
First watt J2
First watt diy push pull sit that uses nos Sony vfets and jfets courtesy of Nelson's gracious diy efforts.
Ncore nc400
Bel canto ref 600m's
Red dragon S-500
Nuprime St-10
Modwright Kwa-100Se
Pass labs Xa-30.8
Everyone of these amps drive the DI's just fine,you just need to decide what sonic presentation you desire.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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Milpai,
They do some good quality veneers at much added cost and wait.
You might contact them by email or phone.
Best,
Kenny.
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Mac,
Glad to hear you got some really awesome tube choices for your MZ2.
I've got my tubes all ready now I just need my MZ2 to show up,
I can't hardly wait.
Best,
Kenny.
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Mac,
Well said,Thank You.
I'm not active on AK but your right,Lots of happiness over there.
On to a diff. subject I know you have said you probably will get a tube amp eventually,some kind of DHT.I'm wandering if you have checked out some of the first watt amps from Nelson Pass.
Just might be another option for you in my opinion.
The MZ2 is small going to be very easy to add in my system after having much bigger preamps and or Intergrateds.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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Contuzzi,
Not really needed,just get you a pair I like did.
No regrets whatsoever,best 3k I have ever spent in this hobby in 31yrs.
Disclaimer,I don't like dealers just makes prices go up.
I've heard though that the upper Tekton models will be dealer only,
Bummer time to put the diy cap on.LOL.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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