Garrard 301/401 audition request

Cmo,
Kudos to you for doing the research on my analog front. To be fair, my post was meant to contain both sincere curiosity as well as a little bit of both skepticism and sarcasm.

Perhaps because I'm a little younger than most A-goners (in my 30s), I am a little skeptical of any vintage equipment that develops an almost religious following. If the design is so good, why did it disappear from the market in the first place, and why isn't someone building turntables based on this design, whatever that design is? In the capitalistic economy it simply does not add up as turntable designers are always looking for ways to improve their design and capitalize (no pun intended) on a successful idea.

Since you had experience with different designs and manufacturers, perhaps you can shed some light what it is that this particular table does so much better than more modern models?

Hello Actusreus,

You wrote, "If the design is so good, why did it disappear from the market in the first place, and why isn't someone building turntables based on this design, whatever that design is? In the capitalistic economy it simply does not add up as turntable designers are always looking for ways to improve their design and capitalize (no pun intended) on a successful idea.

The two classic idler designs experiencing a vintage resurgence now, were the Swiss Thorens TD 124 and the Garrard 301 and 401. These are idler turntables, and they were produced by both companies in the tens of thousands in the 1950's and 1960's, when it was possible to have economies of scale for truly industrial turntable production. These decks had die cast chassis and platters and custom built motors, and serious engineering.

Skip 50 years. Today turntables are sold in hundreds of units by high end manufacturers, not tens of thousands. From an engineering and production standpoint, what could be less expensive than using a cheap, tiny motor, driving a belt or piece of tape to drive a platter? These motors, which are mainly sourced from two large corporations, are very easy to design around. Many designs simply have the user plop the motor down and tension the belt.

If you wanted to produce an idler drive deck, it's a much different story. You would need to have a new, much more powerful and substantial motor designed and built just for your turntable, which is clearly beyond the financial capacity of today's small manufacturers. Ditto for the die cast chassis needed to support the moving parts. There are many other issues involved with designing a successful idler turntable, but the complexity of the vintage decks with their idler engagement mechanisms, eddy current brakes, and other such features, preclude their being made today. Especially for a customer pool who have been virtually brain washed by decades of audio journalism that belt drive decks are inherently superior.

Disclaimer- my company makes slate plinths for these decks, and was involved with the first ground up idler drive turntable design in about 50 years (the Saskia.) We will be coming out with a followup to Saskia this year, by the way, so although making a new idler is difficult, its not impossible.

Jonathan Weiss
Oswaldsmill Audio (OMA)

Just a follow up to my OP. I was able to acquire a grease bearing cream colored 301 from the original owner but I got sidetracked over the past year with having a Thorens TD-124 mki refurbished and mounted on a multi-layered baltic birch plinth. Paired with a SME 3012R tonearm, a Soundsmith retipped Denon DL-103R cartridge, and an Auditorium 23 SUT took spinning vinyl to a whole new level.

Was able to roadtrip up to Pitch Perfect Audio (Thanks Matt!) and listen to the Shindo 301 setup which was beyond sweet!

So perhaps later this year is the time to get the Garrard up and running. Still trying to decide between another birch plinth or slate (anyone able to provide a side-by-side comparison?), and between a 12" SME or a Schick tonearm to pair with an Ortofon SPU.

Something about those idler drive TTs!

I would say do not limit your search in hearing different topologies belt,rim,DD etc.

proper execution of all above is most important IMO + can make them sound wildly different..take notes

Lawrence
Fidelity Forward

I'm in Los Angeles and have a 401 in a Loricraft-style plinth. Send me a message here to arrange to hear it. Thomas Schick tonearm, Ortofon SPU or Zu103.

Phil