Is Sound Stage an artifact of recording?


Yesterday had the opportunity to hear a fine chamber music concert featuring musicians from the NY Philharmonic in a small modern chapel with a slightly domed wooden roof. We sat about 15-20 feet from the musicians. The all acoustic sound was excellent. The Schubert Trout piano quintet  and Brahms piano quartet in G were the program. Afterwards while de-briefing at dinner with an audiophile friend who went with me and our wives, he made the point that despite the excellent acoustics and premier seating he could not close his eyes and see a "sound stage" during the concert. I had noticed the same thing. The locations of the instruments were diffuse. You could not pinpoint the location of the violin as you might expect you could on a good recording of the same work! We agreed that this was not the first time we had noticed this about live music. So I put the question to learned assembly here on Audiogon. Is sound stage something that is invented or perhaps just an artifact of the recording process to help us get the illusion of real musicians playing in front of us. Responses from those of you who have made recordings will be particularly appreciated.

bruce19

@bruce19 Your example of recording a solo guitar and singer illustrates my point perfectly but not in the way you may have thought. I've recorded hundreds of tracks of singer/guitar and I've tried a range of microphone setups and locations. If you want to attempt to recreate what you would hear if you sat 10' away from someone singing and playing the guitar you might think that one or two microphones placed at your listening position would do the trick. What you will find is that this setup sounds flat and lifeless. Your interpretation would be that this is a crappy recording even though, theoretically, it should most closely match what you heard.

In order to achieve the sound one might expect to hear when you get a professionally produced and recorded album I would use two different mics for the guitar - one condenser mic about 6" from the sound hole, and a second mic about 4" from the fretboard. I would use a third large diaphram condenser mic for the vocals but I would nearly always record the vocals separately from the guitar tracks so the vocals and guitar don't bleed into the other tracks.

Once the tracks are recorded I would do the mix. Mixing would include EQ'ing each track, adding delay and reverb custom for each track for a pleasant "room acoustic", and then adding any other effects on the whole mix.

The result of this process is to create the illusion that you are sitting 10' away from a human playing an acoustic guitar and singing. It is an artificial facsimile of what you think you heard in the real world.

To be fair, there have been thousands of great recordings using a minimal number of microphones in a carefully controlled acoustic space. This is really hard to do and impossible even in most recording studios. On the other hand we can hear what this technique sounds like for singer/guitar on old blues recordings. These used a single mic with no EQ or processing. By today's standards they don't sound very good.

My point still stands that the vast majority of recordings do not attempt to recreate live sound from a single listening point. People simply wouldn't buy them because they don't resemble what we now think of as "high fidelity."

I second the people who comment that concerts are generally a "mono" event...especially if its a big show through a PA system or even an orchestra without amplification but you are seated 20 rows back.

Now you might get the sensation of drums behind the front wall of sound...and you may get a left right sensation...but its not very often, if ever, that you hear what can be projected from a 2 channel stereo set up in terms of soundstage, imaging and depth.

On the other hand, a home audio system, rarely if ever, can capture the slam and intensity of live music and its dynamics...so in my view, both can be equally enjoyable while producing "different" sonics.

Live sound reinforcement is a fun and interesting topic.  Companies like Meyer’s sound and others have been bringing high technology to the field.  The use of digital delay, DSP as well as in place measurement/adjustment/calibration is a super fun and interesting application of audio science and engineering. 

Of course, not everyone takes the same level of care, but reading about how they use microphones in auditoriums and carefully adjust the sound zone by zone is amazing. 

In addition to jazz/rock the use of advanced sound reinforcement for classical music venues you'd think were "unplugged" has become mainstream.  

 @ronboco  i do have some classical and jazz,  acoustic etc. songs on my playlist that I have discovered in the last few years and I enjoy them. I’ve just always been so surprised so many here rely on that type of music to build their system around. I guess that type of music is above my pay grade being a blue collar guy. 

How you make your living need not affect what you might like musically. Most Jazz musicians were not from money nor were most of the folkies. Music is a great big beautiful world.

@8th-note  I get your point entirely. For what comes from the speakers to sound like the source it makes sense to record close to the source. Love that kind of recording. Of course others are about the room. Do you recall Paul Horn's flute recordings made at the Taj Mahal?

My eyes closed. A singer, standing in front of me. Voice hovering in the air. That is one of my great joys. Sometimes, she's only three feet tall.  I still love it.