Expanding the Class D Conversation: How Would You Characterize Their Differences?


Expanding the Class D Conversation: How Would You Characterize Their Differences?

I'm currently trialing the NAD M23 (1st gen. Eigentakt-based), and I find it intriguing enough to want to understand it better — which means understanding the broader sonic landscape of class D. So I'm crowd-sourcing.

In a recent exchange, the estimable Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere Music Systems) made two comments that stopped me cold. For those who missed it, here's what he said:

"IME, class D amps vary in sound more than tube amps, which is to say, quite a lot."

"IMO there is a bigger difference between various class D amps than you hear between various tube amps. IOW just because you heard one class D amp says nothing about how the next one might sound."

Link: https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2885828

As I think through this more carefully, these are genuinely important claims. My own experience with tube amps confirms that they produce audibly distinct characters across topologies and designs. If Ralph is right and class D exceeds that range, then generalizing from one class D experience to another is even more hazardous than I assumed.

One specific question for Audiogon members:

If you have a Class D amp or have compared class D amplifiers, how would you describe their character(s)?

Here are some criteria I use:

  1. Frequency balance — Is the tonal response even across bass, mids, and treble, or does it favor certain regions?
  2. High-frequency texture — Are the highs extended and smooth, or edgy, grainy, and fatiguing?
  3. Bass definition — Is the low end tight and articulate, or loose and bloated?
  4. Midrange character — Does the midrange feel present and natural, or recessed and thin?
  5. Transient speed — Does the amp respond quickly to dynamic attacks, or does it sound sluggish and rounded?
  6. Dynamic range — Does it scale convincingly from quiet passages to loud ones, or compress the difference?
  7. Soundstage width and depth — Does it create a convincing three-dimensional image, or sound flat and narrow?
  8. Image specificity — Are instruments and voices placed precisely, or do they blur and wander?
  9. Background noise floor — Is the silence between notes actually silent, or is there grain, haze, or hash?
  10. Long-term listenability — After an extended session, do you want to keep listening, or has something been quietly fatiguing you?

If you can include relevant system context — room, speakers, preamp — please do. Those variables will help me interpret what the amp itself is contributing.

I'm less interested in rankings than in understanding what Ralph mentioned, namely the [vast] range of sonic signatures class D is capable of. Eigentakt, Hypex, Pascal, Purifi, GaN-based, etc. — all fair game.

Price is no constraint here — I'm interested in the full range of what's out there.

hilde45

@hilde45 , as usual, your posts are exemplars of civility and perspicuity. And I don’t find your questions useless, especially, as @buellrider97 noted early on, you are doing the hard part of framing the questions and collating the responses. Also worth it to me just for making me have to look up “propaedeutic”; a new one for me. I hope to remember it to use in the future.

As to your present enquiry, I noted in your other recent thread about the M23 that i got rid of my M33 because it seemed overly polite, almost lifeless, but I am reluctant to blame its Eigentakt design amp module, because I believe its DAC implementation and BlueSound streamer were the real problems; I currently have the M10 v2 (Hypex N Core amp) in a small bedroom system and with DALI Menuet SE speakers it sounds fine, but again it is using similar ESS DAC implementation and identical BlueSound streamer as the M33.  On your list of factors, if this is at all helpful to your enquiry, as it is not a stand alone power amp, I’d rate it as follows:

  1. Frequency balance — pretty even — I’d give it an 8 ?
  2. High-frequency texture — Smooth but not as “airy” or engaging as either of my two bigger set ups; not edgy, grainy or fatiguing at all; I’d give it a 7
  3. Bass definition —  harder to gauge b/c of room acoustics and the small speakers, but it is not bloated or overly loose. maybe a 6.5 or 7?
  4. Midrange character — good midrange;  7
  5. Transient speed —ok speed, 6.5-7
  6. Dynamic range —a touch compressed, 6.5
  7. Soundstage width and depth —decent soundstage 6.5-7 
  8. Image specificity —also decent -7
  9. Background noise floor — It is quiet; 7.5-8. 
  10. Long-term listenability — Decent; 7.5-8

But on overall “musicality” or inducement to tap one’s toes, it rests at an overall 6.5.

On Tuesday, I am scheduled to receive a Gato DIA 400S NPM: another small format Class D all-in-one- that will replace the M10 v2.  It is based on Pascal amp modules modified by the nice guys at Gato. After some burn-in time, assuming I don’t melt the Menuet SE with the Gato’s 800W per channel @4 ohms, I’d be happy to report back as to how it compares to the M10 v2.

@hilde45 - I think your initial post with its posed questions are fascinating, personally. Before going down this rabbit’s hole, I don’t think I would have been able to relate. But I’ve spent the last 6 years working remotely (which now feels like a bit like being under house arrest, but that’s another topic) and spending an inordinate amount of time streaming and discovering music. I have an office system, so my listening goes on throughout the work day too, albeit at low volumes with classical or jazz. 
 

During this time, musical reproduction through audio equipment became a fascinating topic. Of course the room acoustics plays an outsized role in all of this, as does one’s emotional state, etc. But equipment does sound different, especially when paired together in new configurations. Through the years, I began to develop a sense of all the criteria you’ve listed in the original post, but it wasn’t organized in my mind coherently. That said, I know I was listening for it. 

 

I’m still a newbie to this audio world and have yet to attend Axpona or similar events, which I’m looking to do in the future. I have visited lots of retailers and demoed and purchased equipment that I now have in my house. The class d discussion has a long history - predating my interest by a long mile. At the heart of the topic, at least in my humble eyes, is whether modern class d can deliver the emotional experience we ultimately want - are we moved by the music, does the equipment allow us to get closer to the performance - which I assume is how we all started down this addictive path. 

 

When I saw your original post, I couldn’t help but share my own recent experience with these AGD Audion mkiii amps. They’ve delivered on the emotional experience I have sought, but without having to worry about tube’s going out, or the inevitably issues they seem to bring. 

 

I still love my other amps. The Gryphon 120, in particular, still wows me on a daily basis. Just an amazing amp, as are they Qualiton and CJ amps. They are just a different flavor of joy. 

@hilde45 The Class D GanFet does not have a glare. This is version 6.5 of that amp.

The fact that I like the Meitner MA3i over the imersiv D-1 on the brand-new amp is not really indicative of anything yet.

I actually prefer the warmer CODA #11 over the CODA #16 on my big rig when using the imersiv D-1. That DAC is a bit of a unicorn.

Next week I should be getting the #11 back from CODA after a refresh. When I get the amp back, I will return the #16 to the office and compare side by side with the GanFet amp.

@hilde45 too broad a topic and too many variables  to summarize concisely in a useful way. Best to read up on any specific model of interest and go from there.  I can recommend using AI tools available to get useful summaries when comparing two specific products.  I find “web-search” in Poe App to be very good at this specifically. 
 

In general newer models will tend to outperform older.   The best I have heard tend to be newer (the technology is still evolving) and the sound tends to resemble the best tube or SS amps otherwise, but are smaller in size and way more efficient.  
 

Good sound hasn’t changed, only the options available out there to achieve it in various ways. 
 


 

"@fatdaddy2 A useless exercise."

"@fatdaddy2  We each have our own opinion as to "musical". The Crown amp was part of a 4000 watt home theater system involving JBL stage monitors and 18" sub. For HT use, the system made most visits to the theater superfluous, as the better sound was at home. It was never intended for use as a 2-channel stereo system amp, nor did I claim it was. Keep your snark to yourself"

.

A useless exercise vs. opinions to as to what’s musical are opposing points of view.

Thanks for the clarification your intended comparison is based on "home theater".