AKM makes the best DACs

When I meant to talk about single chip DAC's I meant units using mass produced IC's which are sold to multiple vendors, so even if a unit uses 2 x stereo DAC chips it still qualifies.

Discrete R2R, or a ring DAC really don't except as comparison points.

Melm, following Esoterics models used AK chips: D02, D05, D07, K01, K03, K05, K07, SA50.

The list is old, but here is the link

http://vasiltech.narod.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm

Personally I think that this is a silly discussion, if you are trying to compare architecture of dacs (R2R, Sigma-delta or Fpga) and bring some conlusions out of it, yet alone trying to conclude something on bases which model of chip is in some dac.

Is there anybody who can know which chip is inside the dac, or which architecture is used, when simply listening something and not knowing that before?

I strongly doubt.

I have had R2R player (Burmester 001)with BB, Fpga player (DCS Puccini with clock) Sigma Delta based player (Metronome Le player 2s)with AK and 'hybrid' (chip that uses R2R and sigma delta) with BB in Burmester 089 and I liked them all, but in the context of the system they were in.

Needless to say, there are so many ways to 'screw up' something, when building the system, type of chip really should not be the first thing to worry about

@alexatpos

When you say, "if you are trying to compare architecture of dacs (R2R, Sigma-delta or Fpga) and bring some conclusions out of it, yet alone trying to conclude something on bases which model of chip is in some dac." you seem to miss the point completely, or at least my point.

The "architecture" of any DAC has less to do with the chip (whether it be S-D or R2R or FPGA) or discrete R2R and more to do with power supply, clocks and analog section. That’s how one can begin to judge a DAC, yes, even before listening. Doesn’t anyone ever look inside one of these? Perhaps I’ve spent too much time over at head-fi.😊

Using the Esoteric D07-X as an example, some may think it’s a good DAC because it costs about $5000. But Japanese made DACs are priced (or overpriced) like US or European DACs. If you look inside the DAC it has a single relatively inexpensive, and unshielded, r-core transformer supplying both digital and analog functions, a single clock and, as far as I can tell from on-line descriptions, OP amps controlling the analog section.

That doesn’t spell high quality in my dictionary--no matter what the chip is. The chip, given something respectable, is not all that important. IMO it has been made important by marketing. It is what they want us looking for, along with a fancy case--rather than the stuff on the inside that really costs and really matters.

@melm,

TBH, I was very much interested in the DAC you and sns were discussing (go and check my posts on that thread). But when there was a communication issue on the manufacturer side that some one reported, you guys pounced on such posters, acted as mediators and tried to resolve the issue. To me that raised a red flag. The product must be good - but the manufacturer is responsible for communication and getting issues resolved. The users discussing that components should not diss people reporting the issue. I also see that you both constantly punch against US and Japanese components - for their prices. Yes Japanese and US components cost more because labor in these countries is not cheap unlike the place where your favorite DAC is made. It brings more doubt to my mind. I will keep it at that, to be civil and not take it further.

Because in the main, great DACs are made with great power supplies, great clocking devices and great analog stages.

This is partially true. The final sound of a component is tuned by the designer and his ear. Copy-paste is not a great idea for building great components. Great components would definitely lead to great measurements - no doubt. But it would not necessarily mean an emotionally stirring sound. But I get it - like some one mentioned in the thread above - it is the user's opinion. Great details and separation means thrilling to one person, while sounding sterile and lifeless to another. Each person picks their poison.

Melm, I believe that we have ’noise’ in our communication.

My post was an answer to your question to another member yoyoyaya, where he questioned audioman’s remark that AK does not belong to ’upper market’ and than mentioned Esoteric as one of the ’upper market’ brands with many models using AK dacs.

Also, one can search old posts here and find Alex Peychev thoughts on Esoteric dacs and AK chips ,which he used or modified with great succes, in some of his models.

After that I have simply said that this discussion is kind of pointless, imho, because, as I have said, there are many good sounding different dacs or players with different types of chips or technology (architecture or call it as you may like)

Personally, I have no particular preference, owned different types and models and just trying to keep an open mind/ear about it

Op has clearly said that claim from the title is just something based on his taste and limited experience, so again, do not see any point for further, or heated, discussion