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Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? šŸ’

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...šŸ˜±
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then thereā€™s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ā€™cheapā€™ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus šŸ¤ÆšŸ™šŸ½

Iā€™ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations šŸ˜ƒ

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ā€™blows my mindā€™...which is hard to do when Iā€™ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables šŸ¤Æ
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
Iā€™ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now Iā€™ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ā€™killingā€™ it a bit more šŸ„“šŸ˜„
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ā€™listening sessionsā€™ šŸ¤Ŗ
But failing this.....I canā€™t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
halcro
rauliruegas
13,386 posts
 
Dear @edgewear : The cantilever build material and in specific diamond against boron needs a little " analysis ".

My take as been no design/build cartridge expert is as coming:

first define the overall cantilever functions that seems to me an " easy " task:

one of that functions is to hold the stylus tip and second ( could be others. ) and along the cartridge suspension is to follow the modulations/vibrations transmited by the stylus grooves riding and this function is way critical because the ideal is to do it/transmit those movements with out adding cantilever self vibrations/resonances.

That last point is impossible to achieve due not only to the strog forces generated during the stylus grooves ridding but because not even the diamond is a perfect non vibrational cantilever material and because each cantilever along the stylus and its fulcrum has a resonance frequency.

So those tiny grooves modulations is desired too be transmitted at fast as it can.

I donā€™t know if the synthetic diamond used in cantilevers has exactly the same characteristics than the real natural diamond but if we compare differences in between real natural diamond and boron those differences are not night and day ( both materials are away from other cantilever materials. ). Example:

hardness : D= 10 B= 9.3 transmision speed D=18,000 B=16,200

density D=2.41 B=3.5 Young Modulus D=1,050 B=656Ā  ( in other studies says the density of boron is: 2.35. )

All those numbers comes from Namiki site. The biggest difference looks at stifness but the boron still is way superior to other materials but diamond and very good as use in cantilevers.

I canā€™t see that the build material in a cantilever with diamond or with boron can makes a big differences per sĆ© and what we listen through either material is colored too by the cantilever shape and its length along the quality of the cartridge suspension and cartridge engine/motor.

I think that exist to many variables to confirm with out doubt the absolute superiority of sysnthetic diamond vs boron in cartridge cantilevers.

Well all those and what I posted before on this regards is my amateur opinion.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.


mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Pretty good amateur opinion Raul.Ā  This is what I came up with. The specific gravity of Boron is 2.34. This means that Boron is 2.34 times heavier than an equal volume of water. The specific gravity of diamond is 3.52! Diamond is significantly heavier than Boron. A Boron cantilever will have a lower effective mass and theoretically track better. This does not take into account the stiffness of the two materials. Both are very stiff but I believe diamond is stiffer. The stiffer material would provide more accurate transmission. In order to know which is superior in any given design I think you would have to build the cartridge both ways and subject it to testing. I have this itch that tells me the diamond is more of a marketing strategy than anything else. The manufacturers of some very fine cartridges seem determined to avoid using diamond cantilevers and I'm sure there is a reason. I was hoping jcarr could fill us in on it.
edgewear
543 posts
 
Agreed, I suspect the extra $4000 Koetsu charges for a diamond cantilever has everything to do with snob appeal and 'trophies for the rich' marketing tactics.
I've read somewhere that Namiki charges around $1000 for their diamond cantilever/stylus assembly, so the $1500 extra Ortofon charges for the MC Anna Diamond (with their Replicant 100 stylus, so probably not sourced from Namiki) over the regular version with boron cantilever seems more reasonable. Whether this translates to better sound is open to debate. Of course the reviewers say 'yes', but they're just the mouthpiece for the industry. They just as easily try to convince people that Koetsu's surcharge is also money well spent.

Sure enough, it would be most interesting to know why JC and - for example - AJ (van den Hul) never issued a model with diamond cantilever. They must surely have considered this. I recently made direct contact with AJ about another matter, so perhaps I'll get the chance to ask him about this. And hopefully JC will take the bait here....!

chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Diamond is boring :)) Leave it for girls.

How about Synthobionic Cantilever used by Reto Luigi Andreoli whoā€™s been trained by Garrott Brothers in Australia and later went on his own with Bluelectric brand in Switzerland. A few audiogonners have his Magic Diamond MC cartridge, but do you know about his MM cartridges with Synthobionic Cantilever?

As you can read below Streamliner MM models has unique SYNTHOBIONIC CANTILEVER! Pretended to be unbreakable. What??? Letā€™s have another look.

You need google chrome browser (or google translate) to read this review. You will not find another interview with Mr. Adreoli, but Russian reviewer asked his permission to add a bit from their email conversation into this review. Very interesting!

Synthobionic Cantilever is something more interesting than Diamond cantilever.
mulveling's avatar
mulveling
2,454 posts
 
It is interesting to compare material qualities. Then we have ruby/sapphire=corundum, with a both higher specific gravity AND a lower stiffness, seemingly clearly inferior to diamond (all else being equal). Then the issue of rod vs. pipe - why donā€™t we see more attempts at pipes, besides aluminum (difficulty to manufacture?). And also why donā€™t we see more short cantilevers to minimize the effects of imperfect cantilever materials, alignment difficulties aside.

The Koetsu diamond cantilevers do seem perhaps a little bit shorter. Maybe it could be argued that and a (possibly) more rigid stylus bonding could account for the improved sound over boron on the same cartridge, if the mass vs. stiffness is a wash :)
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