A full range speaker?


Many claim to be, but how many can handle a full orchestra’s range?

That range is from 26hz to around 12khz including harmonics, but the speakers that can go that low are few and far between. That is a shame, since the grand piano, one of the center points of many orchestral and symphonic performances, needs that lower range to produce a low A fully, however little that key is used.

I used to think it was 32hz, which would handle a Hammond B-3’s full keyboard, so cover most of the musical instruments range, but since having subs have realized how much I am missing without those going down to 25hz with no db’s down.

What would you set as the lower limit of music reproduction for a speaker to be called full range?

 I’m asking you to consider that point where that measurement is -0db’s, which is always different from published spec's.
128x128william53b
@millercarbon

Using an online tone generator I can hear and feel sound down to under 20hz in my listening area, how coherent that is is another matter. But looking at sound generation, no driver moves anywhere near the distances you describe in generating that, so I think you mean distance time delay, and not pressure level peaks. After all, a grand piano’s low A string is less than 8’ long, and to create that tone only requires it to travel a fraction of an inch.

As far as upper limits I will only consider third level harmonics, as that is what the 20khz is for, not actual notes while the energy above that is measurable, most of us cannot hear it, although I think many of us listen with our sense of touch as well, so I'm sure we can feel it.


To @everyoneelse;

It would seem treble is fair game as well. And I am interested in all aspects of musical sound generation/reproduction so to use an upright bass as an example, I want to hear the musicians fingers sliding up and down the strings while playing it; which can go very high up the frequency range, as well as the woods resonance in an acoustic version, and the lower harmonics that accompany the center of the note.

I guess I was assuming that we would be talking about sitting in your room listening measurements/experience and not a speaker in vitro, so no Anechoic chambers allowed. 

I just wonder what people find acceptable, since I know many people have very expensive, to me, systems that can barely manage 40hz, -0db down. 

Unfortunately Vandertones is an .exe, and so not available for the Mac. As I’ve mentioned, I use an online signal generation site. But have bought a decent portable recorder, and am now looking for opportunities to record pure notes of individual instruments, and I have a friend who is the department head in choral studies at a local university, so am going to see if I can wrangle some time in their concert hall to record the piano, which is already there. 
That will be an interesting database to make available to all who might want to add to, or use the file from. Perhaps there is already a start out there?
I'm pretty happy with 35hz of good bass. But for the few albums with very low bass information lower is better. 
A 30 hz bass note is 38 feet LONG.

A 20 hz bass note is 56.6 feet LONG.

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"People Ask"

"A 30 Hz sub tone is most apparent (and desirable) with movie soundtracks. Most music doesn’t have much sub 30 Hz information, however there are exceptions such as rap/hip hop/electronica-type music. Also, pipe organ music can go down to 16 Hz (in organs with a 32 ft long pipe)"

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Re: OP

After all, a grand piano’s low A string is less than 8’ long, and to create that tone only requires it to travel a fraction of an inch.

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NO, you’re hearing it generate a tone because of the construction of the cabinet and how the that tone is amplified. There is a WHOLE lot more going on other than a string being struck by a hammer. The length of the string inside offers ONLY a means to tune to the NOTE desired. It could be 24" long and still hit an extremely low note.

The size and construction of the "String" really gets complicated depending on what they do. Bass vs Classical vs Steel Guitar vs Upright vs Grand piano. ALL stringed.

Again SUB is felt and it vibrates your ear drums, BUT hear it.. NO YOU DON’T. SUB means BELOW what you HEAR. What you actually hear is BASS.

No different with above 20Khz, VERY few can hear above 12-3Khz, but leave it out of the MIX you will notice it MORE than you will ever hear it.
The Hi in HiFi, just isn’t there.

Though I’ve seen live performances that shut OFF the bullet tweeters behind people LEAVING the joint, and VERY short tempers flaring.

In any case enjoy your information gathering, do a DEEP dive into pipe organs.. CRAZY some of the huge pipe organs.. 3 stories high..
I’ve seen and herd some Jim Doozies..

Full range speaker, no problem..  http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/RMX.htm

6 pairs or LESS are left on this earth.. only 16 pairs were ever made.. I just happen to have a pair.. 20hz-25khz

2 dollars and 22 cents worth

Regards
I like to listen to electronica and rap, and even Pink Floyd has tons of subterranean bass throughout their music. I find it difficult to find a speaker that goes that low and also has a soulful engaging sound. At least for under $10k. This is 100% my own issue. I’ve heard the ones that go high and go low for little dough and I say no, no, no. YMMV, hope it does. Someone above said 35, for me it a solid 30.

A full range speaker?

Many claim to be, but how many can handle a full orchestra’s range?

That range is from 26hz to around 12khz including harmonics, but the speakers that can go that low are few and far between. That is a shame, since the grand piano, one of the center points of many orchestral and symphonic performances, needs that lower range to produce a low A fully, however little that key is used.

I used to think it was 32hz, which would handle a Hammond B-3’s full keyboard, so cover most of the musical instruments range, but since having subs have realized how much I am missing without those going down to 25hz with no db’s down.

What would you set as the lower limit of music reproduction for a speaker to be called full range?

 I’m asking you to consider that point where that measurement is -0db’s, which is always different from published spec's.

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Odd you would post this, just as I am listening to Regna Schirmers' 2000 recording of Schnirrke's 3 sonatas. 
A  reference piano rdcording if ever there was one. 
I am pondering if the wide band which arrives Friday is able to match  what I am hearing with  The Frankenstein.
I mean it goes deep and powerful, 
 
The Frankenstein has dual W18's, vs  the Vox as a    single driver, 
If the Vox does actually go to the claimed 20hz, this might give it a chance to match dual W18's going to 40hz.
Then also to consider the Vox is like 97db sens, the W18E001's a miserable 87db, 
What might be giving the W18's that nice  solid punch in the piano low register is the Mundorf high ends caps. 

Thing is how often does classical muisc have notes under the 40hz range??
Ravel and Debussy , did not write much in the super low registers. 
So honestly i  consider the 20hz-40hz, as nothing more than a  **bonus** = not necessary. 

Dual W18's/87db/40hz/Mundorf cap
vs
Vox  97db/20hz

Can't say which will offer the deeper resolution of the low piano notes. 

My concern is  can the wide band handle the voicing of a   symphony orchestra in full swaing, as in Ravel's Daphne and Chole. 
The Millennium tweeter crashed in such passages.

This to me will be the real test of a  wide band for classical music. 

Dome tweeters have a  rough time attempting to voice all those fq's via a   3/4 inch voice coil.
+ The new wide  bands have an astounding flat fq chart , allowing for a  full representation of even the tiniest nuances which most domes struggle with. 

I'm guessing  the wide band will reveal all sorts of   nuances which the Millennium had  missed picking up.