New Old Thiel CS6 Speakers--Too Harsh


Hi All,

New pair of Thiel CS6 Speakers. First true pair of 'audiophile' speakers (...still might go back to my Kappa 7's and 8's).

Imaging and that 'holographic' sound is pretty good on the Thiels but not as good as the JBL 4312a's.  But again I am plagued by harshness in my system. It seems detail and excellent spatial performance just equates to brittle, harsh and painful in my room. I like to listen at rather loud volumes.

Frequencies that appear to be the problem are between 2khz all the way up to 16khz. If I EQ the system is listenable. 

The other issue the Thiels seem to have is out of phase low bass due to the passive radiator. Can anyone confirm this?

Here is my setup right now:
Modwright Oppo 105d (physical media and streaming)
Sonic Frontiers Line 2 preamp
Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 
14x17 room, on concrete slab carpeted with additional thick throw rug, heavy velour drapes over windows, bare walls and cd/record shelves, nothing on the ceiling.

What is causing the tizzy sharpness in my system/room?

So far the Infinity Kappa Series with its ribbon tweeters has sounded best in my room. The 8's are very impactful and tonally very complete. The 7's are close, not quite as impactful but have better imaging due to lower tweeter height. 

....and I don't want truth. I want beauty.

:-)

Thanks!


128x128brettmcee
Hi, sorry for the vanishing act - but I suddenly decided instead of downsizing into my townhome I’d sell it and move back to my big house. LOL! So, the Thiels might be coming out again. I’m facing however setting up on a floor plan that is NOT stereo friendly. It’s basically the same as my first place, only the dedicated room is half the size so you have a 20’ ceiling at the entry (stupid).


LOL, I had a friend who had Apogees, and I swear the gear stores loved seeing him walk in. I think the last I saw he’d hooked up some Spectrals, but had a graveyard of Thetas, Pass, McIntosh... Freaking vampires.


Why can you only run the speakers on the long wall? One thing I found at least in my last 2 setups (16 x 27 and dedicated 12 x 19) was they sounded better close together and far, far away from the backing wall. I don’t think I ever got closer than 3’ no matter which way I did it. Listening distance 9-12 feet. Then again, I seem to be in the minority on listening on the long end. My dedicated room they were almost 7’ from the back wall.


I’m wondering if there’s something else in the CJ pairing that’s not right. Because your experience is completely opposite of mine over the decades. Then again, I’ve always dealt with this gear when it was new - we are talking "vintage" on a lot of this. Maybe old amps get cranky or get dementia?


I’m willing to bet once the VK-500 is back to spec you’re going to be ecstatic. Did you say what preamp you’re running? I’d put an awful lot into that. The BAT’s were made for each other. What I can say is that the Thiels are the pickiest speakers I’ve had the pleasure of owning. The final spice was getting the cable correct, which is honestly something I wouldn’t have believed. But a small moving box full of cable says otherwise.


Are you having them upgrade the bat-pak as well? I know they’re on their second generation at this point. Does Victor still work there? I’ve been so out of touch - and BAT seems to have fallen out of favor a bit. But my dealings with BAT were always excellent, very responsive.

BTW, huge Genesis fan, but I'm old AF. Saw them several times, and Gabriel for every tour from his first solo up to So.
brettmcee OP
Is there a tube-based power amp that one could try to drive the CS6’s?

 Only if you can find one with at stable 2ohm transformer output tap that can output 100w from it.😉

Did you find out if the tweeter uses ferro fluid like a said way back, it WILL be your harshness problem if it does
As the ferro fluid will be almost turned to glue by now with age and the tweeter will be pushing **** up hill trying to move against it and giving non linear distortions.

Cheers George
brettmcee

Thank You for the update. I am looking forward to the B.A.T. / Sunfire comparison.  Have fun!

Happy Listening!
uncle_monkey

Should you decide to re-engage those Thiel speakers, join us, over on the Thiel Owners thread. I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes and system.

Happy Listening!
uncle_monkey

Should you decide to re-engage those Thiel speakers, join us, over on the Thiel Owners thread. I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes and system.

Happy Listening!
I did pop over there a few weeks back. I'm excited to see if they're up to snuff. But as I mentioned unfortunately I recall one of them was having an issue - buzzing midrange IIRC. I had written them off with the demise of Thiel several years ago, but apparently there's a market in rectifying these.

As I mentioned over there, I loved the speakers so much my chase ended right then and there, even passing on the (amazing) 2.4's when I had a chance. I only updated my electronics/peripherals until I found the perfect match.Of course at the time, it was for a very specific space. In my new house all bets are off.