Eh hem!...Subwoofers... What do ya know?


Subwoofers are a thing.  A thing to love.  A thing to avoid.  A misunderstood thing.  

What are your opinions on subwoofers?  What did you learn and how did you learn it? 


jbhiller
What are your opinions on subwoofers?


Hard to integrate well. Glorious when done right.

What did you learn and how did you learn it?

That’s a really good question. I started off with an M&K satellite/subwoofer system. Bought into the hype, used a passive 2nd order crossover (yeah, enormous toroids) and a couple of different RTAs to attempt to get the two to play well. Honestly they never did. The best I was able to do was use a little room math to damp the peaks.


The rest of my answer is a little long, but the short version: I integrate subs as if I’m building a speaker.



Here’s the long answer:


The V1B subwoofer eventually fell apart and I parted it out on Ebay, sold the S-1Bs.

Years later I was in San Francisco and got into upgrading speakers, and that led, very rapidly to learning speaker analysis and making my own. Now mind you, I have some professional background in analog and I was lucky enough to audit classes at Georgia Tech when I was too young for the math. Point is, I didn’t just jump into speaker design from zero.


One thing that changed a lot in my favor was the availability of cheap test and simulation tools. DATS, OminiMic and XSim made everything I wanted to do a lot easier, but none of them were useful without having a background already. The other thing that was new was miniDSP having a number of affordable and very high feature active crossovers.


Even with this background I made a couple of choices that really made everything a lot easier:

  1. Stick to 2-way designs
  2. Measure the bass response in place.
  3. Use OmniMic instead of REW, just because for my needs OmniMic held my hand a lot more.


Had I not done that, I would have made plenty of mistakes in analyzing the mid-bass response, or gotten overwhelmed with the quasi-anechoic requirements of a 3-way (this is short-hand, please don’t jump on this sentence).

Anyway, after this I returned to wanting a sub. Based on reviews including those at:

data-bass.com

I went with a Hsu. They were out of the model I wanted, but for a couple of hundred I could get the next larger unit. What arrived was the size of a small refrigerator, and me in a small apartment!! Hahahaha.


Anyway, I tried a number of ways to integrate the sub, bought a pair of GIK Acoustic soffit traps, and the miniDSP HD balanced. What finally worked for me was this:

Treat the sub exactly as if I was adding a 3rd driver to my speakers.

Which meant measuring the acoustic distance, putting in the response of the satellites and subwoofer into XSim, phase/time matching them and then using OmniMic to simulate EQ’s.

Pant flapping glorious.
@millercarbon - Thanks for the reply. I have had the same experience, that a well-integrated set of subs *seems* to image with the rest of the range. I hear the upright bass coming from in front of me, even though the two woofers are behind me.

I've been intrigued by the DBA since REG's review in TAS. But given the lack of space in my room & the great results from 2 mains + subs (which it took years to place), I haven't tried it yet. Maybe someday.
So is it the consensus that 2 cheap Dayton or BIC subs are better than spending $500 on a SVS or Rythmik?

if I rabbit hole here I wouldn’t go more than 2 subs and my cheapy 200 watt sealed sub seems to be doing ok (can’t find a 2nd one anywhere sadly). And that a 2nd sub should NOT be placed on the other end along the same wall (front) as the other sub?
I started with one sub years ago,added another last year,read posts from miller and nonoise,and was intrigued.After reading everything I could find about "the swarm" I added two more.I already had room treatments which smoothed the bass nicely and got rid of the 'sonic boom'.I don't think about the bass anymore because it sounds perfect to me no matter what the recording.I never wish it was tighter,fuller,more accurate or dynamic.It's always just right.
Are 2 subs better?

Honestly a lot of this is an economic problem. Not just expense of the sub, but the room. Can you afford / do you have the space to locate each sub ideally?

If so, then yes.

If not, a good compromise is room acoustics, 1 sub placed as well as you can plus an EQ.

In my own situation, I really really don't want to be moving a sub 6" 12 times to compare and measure. I have about 2 locations where this 100lb beast can go,  and I'm going to put it there and EQ it and call it done. :)