Denafrips Terminator R2R Multibit, ultimate pcm redbook converter??


Maybe the ultimate PCM (RedBook) converter? Sure looks the goods.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/denafrips-terminator-the-king-of-r2r-dac.851085/

Cheers George
128x128georgehifi
I would REALLY like to hear comments (if not the dacs themselves) about the Holo Audio Spring, Kitsune edition vs the  Soekris 1541. Since the 1541 is just coming out it will be a while but both these dacs intrigue me. There are reviews out there on the Kitsune so if anyone pulls the trigger on the Soekris, please post comments here.
I can only speak for the Holo as I listened to it at the L A Audio Show. It was in the headphone lobby area and was fronted by the outstanding Headamp GS-K Mk ll. I listened through the Hifiman HE1000 V2, Audeze LCD-4 and Focal Utopia headphones (The Hifiman won ears down) so from source to headphone everything was top notch, to say the least. 

All the while I listened (about 30 minutes) the Holo output stayed steady at 44.1 and it was there and then that I decided I could easily live with a high end headphone set up, if space were a consideration or if I had more disposable income. It was easily the best sound at the show and I'm convinced that the Holo was largely responsible for the purity and quality of the sound. Nothing was amiss.

Thanks to that experience and this thread, I'm considering getting the Holo and keeping my Marantz SACD player to use as a transport. This is really a tough decision as I don't need to go down that rabbit hole again.

All the best,
Nonoise


@teo_audio

Just because there are many bad sounding (screeching as you put it) Delta Sigma DACs does not mean that none of them are any good.

The latest Delta-sigmas use multiple 1 bit converters to achieve the same as a 6 bit R2R DAC. You can understand how a ladder DAC takes output from a resistor network where a small number of resistors are exact multiples of each other (1x,2x, 4x, 8x etc). Well you can also build a network from the SAME 1x resistor but simply by using a huge number of them. This is in effect what new Sabre Delta Sigma DACs do - 64 x 1 bit DACs - and by summing them to various degrees you get up to 6 bits.

So the line between R2R and Delta Sigma is blurred when you realize that the latest Delta Sigma chips are behaving much like an R2R DAC (but only a 6 bit one). The end result is that the latest Delta Sigma DACs are extremely linear (benefit of 1 bit) and yet they also do not need to upsample nearly as much as older generation pure 1 bit DACs (without a 64 array).

Of course an R2R DAC can be designed to be NOS however this is at the expense of linearity (THD) performance.

Since multibit DACs have great low noise but poor linearity and the 1 bit DACs have excellent linearity but high noise NEITHER are purely the best approach - the 6 bit DAC with some oversampling is currently achieving the best performance.

More explanation here of how one designer has approached the challenge of noise and linearity.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/inside-the-dac2-part-2-digital-processing

Furthermore, as this manufacturer states 90% of the circuitry and the major part of DAC performance is all in the ANALOG design (so according to manufacturer much of the performance is NOT even related to Multibit R2R NOS vs Delta-Sigma digital conversions)

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/149341191-inside-the-dac2-part-1-analog-processin...

Conclusion (if you buy this line of reasoning): It is far far more important how well the DAC is designed and built than the specific digital conversion chip employed (1704, 9018 etc)!!!!!!!

Excellent sounding DACs do not ALL have to use the same exact methodology and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

You also need to mention the massive amount of noise a Delta Sigma has compared to a Mulitibit, that it needs to get rid of. Even the 6 bit hybrid Delta Sigmas.

Sorry just noticed you did.

Furthermore, as this manufacturer states 90% of the circuitry and the major part of DAC performance is all in the ANALOG design (so according to manufacturer much of the performance is NOT even related to Multibit R2R NOS vs Delta-Sigma digital conversions)

Not as far as MoJo Music thinks when doing Redbook on both.
" When a PCM file is played on a DSD or Bit Stream Delta Sigma converter, the DAC chip has to convert the PCM to DSD in real time. This is one of the major reasons people claim DSD sounds better than PCM, when in fact, it is just that the chip in most modern single-bit DACs do a poor job of decoding PCM."  


Cheers George
I have purchased and built 2 Dacs from diyinhk.com    both of these Dacs are very good.  I am currently using a ES9018K2M Dac, the only thing that I have compared to this Dac head to head is a Wadia 121, but it isn't close, the DIY Dac is noticeably better.   They offer 4 or 5 models of R2R dacs with decent parts quality and FIFO reclocking... I may fold and try one of these,  It looks like that the kit, a case and power supply may me around $300 or so.  I haven't added it up,  but it won't be crazy and right now, I'm happy with the quality... I need to research the chips that they use...They do have a 1704 Dac, but the Chip is not included,  The 1702 Dac does include the Dac chip as well as the as well as the AD1856,  AD1862, AD1865 and TDA 1540.