Why leave feedback if the Audiogon team is just going to remove it?
I recently bought a power cord from member "troy10".
I left this feedback - which was later removed by Audiogon for what reason I have no idea.
Only leaving NEUTRAL instead of NEGATIVE on the off
chance the seller did not actually know this power cord was not authentic. I
currently own 3 LessLoss power cords and have two very good audio buddies that
own 7 between them. I have also owned 3-4 more in the past as my system(s)
underwent change. When this cable arrived, I noticed right away that it was
missing the normal "LESSLOSS" decal and the "OYIADE.COM" decal on each end of
the cable. When I contacted the seller, he said that just because there are no
stickers, that does not mean that it is a fake. I checked my existing cables and
called my friends to confirm as well, and all 10 of the power cords had both of
these stickers present at each end of the cable. It was only after several
messages back and forth between myself and the seller that he finally said "I
removed the stickers". THIS IS INCREDIBLY DECEPTIVE... I now have to go through
the arduous process of making a claim on PayPay to get my funds back...very
disappointed with this transaction.
After contacting LessLoss, they confirmed that there are fakes out there and that they always had both of the decals on each end. Because the seller said (after I brought up the issue) that "he removed the stickers" does not make the cable authentic.
The PROPER thing to do is to say...
"I'm sorry that you are not happy with the transaction... I will allow you to return for refund, minus my shipping costs".
I have bought hundreds of tubes not so many cables. Sometimes I get a bad tube. I refuse to pass these tubes along to the next guy like a lot of people and this may be the case here. I just leave no feedback at all. I don't care for the adversarial exchanges with small sellers, I will contact larger operations and ask for some relief. On occasion I will complain to a seller if it is a particularly egregious sale.
As you know, Feedback can really damage the Seller’s reputation with no return. Now if the Seller honestly didn’t know the cable was fake and later on refunded or made things OK for the buyer, then Feedback should be removed. Now, if Seller don’t take responsibility and simply ignores the buyer, then yes Feedback should be Negative as this seller should not be part of Audiogon. Also LessLoss is a European based company and can confirm for you whether the cable is indeed fake. If you need help contacting them, let me know and I will happily help you Zen
The buyer has not proven the cables are fake. He has only said they came without the decals or stickers. Now, does the absence of the decals make them fakes? The seller said he removed the decals and at the time, didn't think it would become an issue or even think it would matter or he forgot. Maybe he didn't like the looks of the decals. I remove the stickers or decals on all my gear. The buyer only commented on the sound of the cord after he was asked and maybe is convinced it is fake based only on the fact that it has no stickers. It seems to me that this could have been dealt with out of the feedback system by two members of AudiogoN in good standing. I would have offered a refund just because the buyer was not happy with the purchase.
Exactly... we tried to work this out without needing to involve PayPal, but the seller was not cooperating. If he would have just offered me a return, less his shipping costs, that would have been acceptable to me.
If it was noted in the original ad that there were no decals or he removed the decals... would you be OK buying the cable? I would not.
When I remove decals or stickers, I put them on the receipt or ad page if I bought it on line, then into a file. Most people don't think this way tho. I bet he thought nothing of removing the stickers and didn't even dawn on him that it might be important for resale value to some. Did your discussion get heated before the feedback was left? Was there an accusation of "fake goods" from the beginning?
I was more "concerned" at first, asking where he had purchased the power cord and if he had the original bag or receipt, which he did not. He made no mention that HE actually removed the decals at all (at first).
Then I ask him to return the item... that I was not convinced that it was authentic. Then we went back and forth a few more times through Audiogon messages and he was saying it was real, etc., THEN he finally said that he had removed the stickers... I found this part to be a real issue - that it was not mentioned when I first brought up the issue after receiving the cable.
I just think that the correct thing to do would have been to offer a return if he had no proof of purchase.
And I still have no real answer (as usual) from the Audiogon staff of WHY the neutral feedback was removed.
Well his return policy on the two items he has on now is: "Returns are not accepted on this item." So, he might be hiding behind that. His all time feedback rating is 98.1%, so he is being gigged for something. I wonder if AudiogoN removed the text of the feedback, but left the percentage hit. At the end of the day, I and I believe most sellers here would have accepted the return as it is an issue for you and the buyer needs to be happy with the purchase.
I purchased a classic Thornes turntable here on Audiogon and then the seller changed his mind after he deposited my Cashiers check!! I never received the turntable, but I did get my money back from him. What a total waste of time that was. When I tried to post a negative, he was able to have it removed???? Not fair at all, and I wish there was some way to change it.
I had another transaction where I left NEUTRAL feedback... I was the buyer and the item that I received was not working. I was merely asking for a return/refund from the seller. After leaving the neutral feedback, the seller leaves me neutral feedback complaining that I was a bad buyer. So, Audiogon decides to take BOTH of the neutral feedback off. What a total waste of effort for everyone. I do not understand why this is happening.
There's only one side of this story being aired, so I'm only going to criticize that one side, even though the unheard side is probably open to an equal amount of criticism.
Removable stickers on a power cord proving authenticity is a joke. Even if it did have a sticker, how would you known the sticker was authentic?
If the stickers are that important, why didn't you inquire about them before completing the transaction? If you couldn't see them in the photo you should have asked for a different photo with the stickers clearly visible.
Before concluding that they are fake you should have them examined by a dealer, distributor or the manufacturer.
The BIGGEST issue that I have with what happened with this transaction (and the reason for me leaving neutral feedback) is that when I contacted the seller noting that the decals were not present, and that I looked at all 3 of my existing LessLoss power cords and called 2 different audio friends of mine that have them and asked that they also verify the decals were present on theirs, he DID NOT say ANYTHING about the fact that he had removed them.
We went back and forth with messages and he was saying that "He bought from a reputable seller" and "Just because there are no decals, does not mean that it is not authentic", etc., etc. No mention of the fact that he removed the decals.
Then, I ask him if I can return the item and I would be fine covering his original shipping fees.... THEN he says "I removed the decals". TOTAL BS! This is so deceptive, I cannot imagine a sane person reading this post would not think that this is wrong.
Again, the PROPER thing to do is offer a return if the buyer is not satisfied for some reason and move on.
Completely disagree... I expect more from my sellers. I have completed hundreds of transactions on Audiogon, Ebay and US Audio Mart as both a buyer and a seller. If a buyer came to me with a concern, I would do my best to address it, INCLUDING accepting a return if he was not happy with something related to the item.
And you spend WAY TOO MUCH time on these forums... find a good hobby, like listening to music maybe?
John, unfortunately I didn't get to read your last response as the Audiogon staff decided to remove it.
I think maybe you are right though... I need to "man up" and "put my big boy pants on" and be like you and the other audiophile fools on here and go buy retail. That way I can spend $8,000 for a brand new, shiny CD player instead of grabbing one used for 1/3 that price from someone like you when they get bored of it after a year.... good economic plan!
Also.... if I am spending too much time on these forums (243 posts), then what are you doing exactly (5,754 posts).... maybe math was not your best subject?
I can understand your position, however if that is the case then what does that say for the post that "jmcgrogan2" left for me that prompted my response in the first place? His post was removed by Audiogon. I suppose that means that you DEFINITELY not buy or sell to him then?
I purchased a used Lessloss digital AES/EBU cable (MSRP US $695). No Lessloss labels or stickers or anything. Nada. It sounded atrocious at first. The HF were shrill and painful. It took well over 150 hours to burn-in. Yet, it was authentic since I purchased it from a reviewer who bought it directly from Lessloss when he wrote the review. He stopped using it and put it away for over a year before putting it on the market. Over that time, it lost its charge. I would simply burn it in again and compare it to your other cables.