"Am I making too big of a deal about this? If I get Def Tech surrounds, that is two more power cords right?"
Nope. The surrounds are not powered, assuming you're looking at the dipole surrounds.
I have to ask though- what is it about the 7006's that give you reason to need more bass? You have 3 decent subs in your L/C/R. I've heard Deftechs (BP2006- less power than yours) that blow me out of the seat. How big is your room? Do you have the subs facing eachother or away?
Going from Deftech to Klipsch is a bit of a radical switch, IMHO. Bi-poles to horn-loaded is quite a change.
I myself got rid of my Deftech set about 3 months ago, and switched to omni's, which itself was a pretty big change. I was just never happy with the Deftechs for music. Home theater wise, they were fantastic.
For Def Tech surrounds I was looking at (bipolars) the BPX, BPVX, BP2X. I thought I had read somewhere that those were powered too, although I don't see it specifically said one way or the other on their website.
As for the BP2006's, I would only be replacing those if I decided to go with Klipsch all the way around. I don't have any problems with those. The subs are facing away from each other and the room is about 15x20.
What you said about Klipsch sounding better for music and Def Tech better for movies may help answer what I'm looking for though. I rarely listen to music much anymore, just in my car or headphones at work. My home stereo is used 90% of the time for movies.
What about mixing a Klipsch sub with 5 Def Tech speakers? It's not unusual for your sub to not match your other home theater speakers is it? The super cube just didn't blow me away, but I was listen to music in the store, not watching a movie when I demoed it.
I wouldn't be concerned about the sub being from a different manufacturer than the rest of the speakers. There are several excellent companies that specialize in subs: Hsu Research, SVS, Velodyne, JL Audio, etc. Since your application is primarily movies, I'd suggest the biggest ported box you can afford (or two smaller ones).
I guess I'm looking for is why you need a sub? What you have is formidable. Heck, you can just run speaker level to the 7006's- no crossover matching, placement worries or anything. It's one of the nice things about them.
Unless you have a MONSTER (please don't sue me) room, they should do pretty well.
I could imagine soemthing going a little deeper, below 20 Hz or so. In which case I'd have to suggest something from SVS or HSU (Internet Direct)
Parasound63, the "problem" with any floorstanding speaker is the lack of placement options for the woofers -- they are in the same cabinet with the mid/treble drivers and placement will likely be poor for bass response.
The 7006's go down to 17hz. Do you have them crossed over in the AVR where the rolled off at 8ohz or something? You already have 3 powered subs in your system. You should be able to really steam your neighbors- 2 blocks away!
I'm not sure I can agree with you all the way on this one. the Deftechs present many challenges with placement: avoiding corner-loading, distance from the read wall, toe in etc. But the bass resonse is generally not one of the weaknesses.
In effect, one has 2 prefectly crossed-over subs. Stereo subs at that. This alone deals with many of the problems encountered in dialing-in a sub. Placement wise, they function similarly to having a seperate sub right next to the tower.
In any case, I gotta admit that I'm fascinated at the idea that these speakers aren't satisfying in the bass department. If the OP wants an additionally sub, I say go for it. Get a good one! I'm just curious as to why...
"The 7006's go down to 17hz. Do you have them crossed over in the AVR where the rolled off at 8ohz or something?"
Oops-typo! I meant "Do you have them crossed over in the AVR where the rolled off at 80 hz or something"
No, I don't have them crossed over or anything. I'm just an intermediate audio guy so I don't mess with that kind of stuff much. Just the positive and negative wires running from the receiver to the speakers. I guess the main reason I want a sub is that for 5.1 (or someday 7.1), each speaker has its own audio channel. I feel like I'm missing an element to the the movie by not having a dedicated sub for that channel.
You may want to consider using a pair of subs, rather then a single unit. A lot of good subs out there. For a discussion and analysis of why two, check out Floyd Toole's new book 'Sound Reproduction'
Long before I read Toole's stuff, I started using two NHT units, each have a separate outboard power amp. Great sound.
Ahhh! Now I get it.
I think you can relax. You have a dedicated sub for 3 channels with your current set-up.
I'm just an intermediate audio guy myself, but I have experience with a similar set-up. The guy I sold my 2006's to was worried about similar things. He was fixated with running LFE instead of just running speaker-level. I suggested that he give himself time to get used to them.
I watched Dark Knight with him a couple of weeks ago. The bass really did about knock me off the couch. They sound far better for him than they ever did for me.
No, I don't have them crossed over or anything. I'm just an intermediate audio guy so I don't mess with that kind of stuff much. Just the positive and negative wires running from the receiver to the speakers
If I'm understanding you, you've never played with the crossover?
If that's the case, I'd suggest this may be the reason you feel the bass to be lacking.
If you're worried about upsetting the balance you have now, just mark what setting the crossover is at presently, then play with it and see if you get better results.
I'm not suggesting that a separate sub doesn't require some effort to integrate properly, but we tend to place main speakers based on imaging and soundstaging. It's unlikely that that location will yield the best bass response. With modern DSP room mode correction this may be less of an issue that it once was, but it would still be better to minimize the DSP and place the bass drivers appropriately. That's the advantage of a separate subwoofer.
One reason I can think of to place a sub next to the main speakers is because the crossover to the sub is too high and the sub can be localized.
I am not sure of your speakers, but they each have a built in powered sub, do they not. I am assuming they each have a connection for the sub out of a receiver. I think if you were to connect the sub out of your receiver to the speakers you would get a considerable jump in bass response. I would think they each have a seperate bass volume control in the back as well, but I could be wrong as I have never seen them up close.
"No, I don't have them crossed over or anything. I'm just an intermediate audio guy so I don't mess with that kind of stuff much"
Check the settings in your AVR to make sure you are running your front 3 speakers as "Large", with NO crossover point so that you are running your front 3 speakers full range. Also make sure you have set the AVR sub setting to "No Sub" I had an all Def Tech HT set-up before and it was totaly smokin'.
BTW- what AVR are you using?
Thanks everyone for their input. This helps me tremendously. By the way my AVR is a pretty old Denon 2800. Probably 8-9 years old.
I listened to the Def Tech super cubes and was not impressed. I liked the higher end Klipsch's better. I thought the sound range was way better
I own the Super Cube Reference by Definitive Tech running in line with my mains,this sub is very precise and musical if set up properly,like any piece of equipment. Me thinks your sound range that you speak of leans more towards a boom boom type of response. If so ,you will never appreciate any type of musical sub.
Go with the Boom Boom. Happy Listening...
The number one suggested position for running 2 subs is in stereo next to your mains or more accurately under your mains.... Not sure what all the talk is about placement problems with subs built into the speaker that puts them in the best place automatically. I agree with last post about your liking the boom. Have you done any listening to these klipsch speakers you talk of buying to match this new sub? I have never heard a klipsch speaker that wasn't xtremely fatiguing, and btw that harshness is greatly exaggerated even more in a mostly closed rectangular room if speakers are on narrow wall
That was seven years ago. I would hope he figured it out by now.
I have extensive experience with both brands over the last couple decades. Differing technologies require fairly distinctly different setup approaches and even equipment needs, acoustics considerations, etc, and integrate differently, offer differing strengths and weaknesses, and so forth. I do like both brands but, yes, address both somewhat differently.
With the klipschs, I can get away with less acoustic treatments, as the speakers tend to beam in mid/highs, and you can aim them for even less boundary reflection interactions. Also, require somewhat less power, easier to driver for any receiver, and yet still sound best with warmer gear, even tubes, etc, as klipshs are ZIPPY and tipped up on top end!
Still, bang for buck, they can play louder and punchier with solid sound propagation and intelligibility from the design.
Deftech's powered line are THE ONLY options I'd chose for their mains! They are super effeicient with powered sub assisted designs! It makes for dynamic advantage over typical. (yes, klipsh dynamics with sub also super, compared to standard designs - also, more flexible gear selection choices. Still, must do critical setup and/or room acoustics, as sidewall reflections must be dealt with, unless longwall setup.
How big is this room? Curious.
For average dual purpose setup, I'd probably go Deftech's more often than not, and just hide power cords, and live with it. (otherwise, build a proper façade, and do a professional theater look to front of room, and hide all your gear anyway! -sans the old school throw back equipment strewed all around the room, wife displeased look, and modernize!).
I've had good experience with powered def techs, mated to Parasound solid state in past, and even tube gear too, yes! Stuff sound dynamic and potent enough, and still good for music, yup. With Klipsh, I DEFINITELY like tube gear in the signal path! Mellows out, and horns are solid sounding, great for home theater, dynamic as heck for passive, and cheap!