So sad about Netflix sound quality. No one can hear it

PS.  I just bougth a 4k DVD player and bought Oppenheimer in 4k.  Will test it next week.  While this solves the problem for good movies (you can buy a 4K DVD for less than 2 theatre tickets), it doesn't solve the problem for random moives you want to wath occasionally.  That said, Netlix is far from the worst.  I refuse to watch a movie on Hulu.

My new DVD player will also be my HD streamer and it is supposed to have upscaling so we will see if that helps Netflix.

Jerry

How does better streaming sound quality work with an Apple TV box which is how I get Netflix and other streaming sources?  I'm not sure Netflix is even broadcasting better quality sound. I'm just saying that they recorded on their side and yet no one gets to hear it because there's no way they can send out a better signal. Upscaling is an idea but that may not be very practical and not sure how that would work and devices required etc.

Where is the info about compression, (and pseudo surround)?

I use all sources from my cable box/ethernet cable/Smart TV apps (no external streamer like Apple TV involved).

OFTEN, like broadcast the Voice; American Idol; YouTube ..... I change my AVR to 2 channel stereo, (or Direct which turns out to be 2 channel stereo), and it sounds better than whatever pseudo surround that is created somewhere _______? by somebody _____?

Netflix creates good stuff on their side and they probably record it at a really high-quality level. Yet no one on the planet can hear it because streaming doesn’t allow people to hear it due to compression crap.

Do you have any information to back up any of this up?  This sounds like some random made up complaint with no actual information.

@erik_squires 

Are you saying the Stream available from Netflix is uncompressed? I think that would be news to a lot of people.  The signal is not a full band width Signal otherwise bluray and kaleidoscope sources,etc would not be necessary.

Unfortunately kaleidoscope doesn't offer streaming services.

So I am a little confused why you believe otherwise.

Are you saying the Stream available from Netflix is uncompressed?

No, where have I said this? I’ve merely questioned your own original assumption.

The signal is not a full band width Signal otherwise bluray and kaleidoscope sources,etc would not be necessary.

If it’s not full bandwidth, how bad is it?

Your inference, that Bluray would not be necessary if Netflix was of high quality is a difficult leap of logic. Convenience and cost are also relevant factors int he success of a medium.

Nothing to see here. Move along. 

One thing I notice is on the majority of movies on Netflix or pretty much any other platform, Prime etc. there seems to very very little content from the rear surround channels. It’s not my system. 

I streamed a movie from Netflix and then the next day I was in my local library and saw that they had the Blu Ray.  The latter sounded so much better that it was startling.  I listened to a bit on Netflix again to make sure that I hadn’t imagined it.

Does anyone have an opinion about the AppleTV X ? 

Never heard of it

I installed the AppleTV-X in my system. I would ask that anyone looking for a visual and audio improvement to their home theater to check this out. If you never heard of it do the research. 

@njcardave 

It is a cool device appletv x.

It's also $25oo.  The accompanying power box probably adds a lot. I'm guessing you have to get it with the power box.

Can you talk about what it did for you. you have an awesome room so I'm sure it's been assessed properly.  I wish Apple would do a premium Apple TV box. It's pretty awesome for 150 bucks.  But it's a pass-through device for a digital signal but I'll look over the details for this customized creation. I'm not sure how it will deal with the less than ideal audio Data coming in along with the video. i Am more focussed on the audio side than the video obviously

@njcardave 

I noticed your room has a lot of diffuser stuff going on also the full ceiling of cones is interesting. What have you noticed after putting in all those diffusers. It seems to me if you want the effect of whatever diffusers do in the way of scattering sound, you need a lot of them. You certainly do.

You are correct. After I put sound panels at the primary and secondary spots in my media room I experimented with diffuser panels. The overall sound is very pleasing. This has been a labor of love. I’ve been involved with the hobby for well over 50 years. I can not overstate the importance of a dedicated room that is correctly treated. 

@njcardave

So with all the resulting scattering of waves you noticed improvement in clarity and imaging? a clear before and after benefit? would a few panels do it noticeably or do you really need numerous diffusers as you have done for the full effect?

I have this pristine plaster ceiling with absolutely no cracks and am prevented from putting anything up there. So I have one large wall I could put a diffuser on that wall but there’s a lot of clutter with furnishings throughout the room so it may be of marginal impact. Actually, I would have to remove a painting portraying a hunt scene where horses are jumping over a fence while following dogs in pursuit of a fox.

I agree with njcardave. I installed an LTA linear power supply on my Roku Ultra and it made a substantial improvement. And it gets that noisy switching power supply out of your system.

@njcardave ​​​​@emergingsoul  Have you tried the Vivid HDMI video conditioner?

It's a device housed in a PVC tube that emits an energy signal that saturates the HDMI connection from the streamer or DAC to any LCD/tv/projector. Incudes a 12v power supply. The image clarity and sound improvement is stunning to say the least. For $299.95 it's a bargain! And they are now on sale or $240!

Includes...

Forgot to mention that the Vivid is an ADD-Powr product.

For clear dialog, it’s better to have the best 2 channels than a home theater with tons of mediocre speakers & electronics.

My video:

https://youtu.be/7RDTit_IH1w

House of Dynamite!!! All I can say is that it is great surround sound, plus it is a great movie. I have 11 channels and we heard helicopters flying around us, doors opening and closing, people talking at different locations. I think Netflix is getting with the surround sound program now. We thoroughly enjoyed watching that movie in our theater with the surround audio effects. 

@audioquest4life 

agreed, I have the premium quality sound for Netflix, but there’s still a lot of a room for improvement.

I found the house of dynamite really good, the sound was overly dynamic in some sections.

11 channels ambitious.  If I had your really elegant room, I would have 11 channels too

Premium audio/video quality and streaming shouldn't be in the same sentence.

@sunshdw 

I saw that you like kaleidoscope, and I'm sure it's wonderful but it's very limited and what you can see. Most people Watch streaming sources all the time. And these can't be improved on Kaleidoscope Beyond what Netflix can offer it's very sad.

I saw all the streaming offerings on the kaleidoscope app and you have to pay for them all and I'm not sure the quality is any better than the source from which they came

@emergingsoul 

Yes, I am a fan of the KScape product. Their library is quite large both in their movie as well as their TV selections. 

Yes you have to pay for them, be it a rental or out right purchase, just like every other streaming service (i.e. AppleTV, Amazon Prime etc). 

One main difference that separates them from all the others is KScape is a download vs. the others are streaming. So is the quality better? Absolutely. Is it a little less convenient? To some. 

I stand by my previous comment. 

@sunshdw 

So the streaming stuff I can download is of a better quality? I'm not sure that's correct because Netflix offers premium but the downloads are not any different from what's being streamed if you have a good connection. Why do I have to pay 10 to $15 for all the TV program streams. I watched everything through kaleidoscope I'd be paying a couple hundred dollars a week that's crazy and I don't care what your income level is.  Plus the selection is extremely expensive and lots of current stuff isn't even there. It's more convenient to stream stuff I can just go in and out of all my streaming sources and I've got a great system so the quality isn't so bad but it could be a lot better. Still pretty good.

Economics are not very good and I don't think the company is doing very well. I'm not gonna pay five or $6000 to get started on those systems. It's incredibly annoying to go through A pay gate every time I want to watch something

Although mentioned last year in this thread, I too have an Apple TV-X.  Granted, it is expensive, but considering that streaming is my main form of entertainment and it's important to me, I felt the investment in a potentially better streamer was worth it.  The ATV-X has enhanced the quality of sound and video, a good deal better than either the Nvidia and Fire TV Cube. The ATV-X has the separate power supply as well as internal tweaks to boost its performance.

Just in the past two weeks I notice more Atmos content on Netflix, which sounds better.  Not as good as a recorded Blu-Ray, but better.

@traubr I remember the thread you started back in August where you had briefly mentioned the ATV-X, which piqued my interest. This probably isn’t fair, but in terms of sound quality, how close does ATVX get to physical format (Blu-ray/UHD)? Something close to 75% of the sound quality we would otherwise hear from Blue-ray? 

the atvx appears to be a device that redid some of the internal circuitry and then attached a Power supply and created a better sounding streaming situation, offer for a couple thousand dollars.

But if you have all the great cabling and power supply supporting Apple TV box then why would you wanna do all this?

@traubr 

Unfortunately no one has any idea what this glorified Apple TV box is supposed to accomplish..  It may change the sound but it doesn't say anything about improving the sound and any rationale whatsoever as to why it's been accomplished.

Adding a better power supply hardly says anything since most people already have this stuff so it's very unfortunate that this is a product that seems a bit smoke screenish. Very happy you are enjoying it

@toro3 , @emergingsoul ,you both ask fair questions and raise good points about what the ATV-X can squeeze from streaming.  The ATV-X affects and improves both video and audio quality, so in fairness it has to be viewed as an overall improvement to the streaming experience.  Early on, I was rather disappointed with it, given the price of admission and the lack of knock-me-over-the-head improvements.  The changes were subtle, and like most electronics, took a while to show themselves.  Now that it has settled, are the changes huge?  No.  Was it a smart move?  Er, um, maybe, perhaps... yeah, I think so.  More on this in a bit.

I pored through the thread on WBF where I first encountered the hopped-up streamer, and people with projectors and OLED TV's were claiming big video improvements.  My Sony Bravia TV is coming on 6 years old and I still really enjoy the picture.  With the ATV-X, it got better.  Not night and day, but it is clearer, brighter and more engaging.  It's not like SD to 4K UHD, but it's still better than before.  How can I tell?  I put the Nvidia Shield back in and the picture was blah.

As to sound, streaming audio has never approached that of a recorded disk for me.  I would prefer to watch a Blu-Ray movie any day of the week for optimal video and audio quality.  Vis-à-vis the audio portion of streamed programming, it is better with the ATV-X than before.  I'd say the SQ improvement alone was (guess-timating) 25%.  That doesn't seem like much, but I found it enhanced my pleasure.

I have a small DVD collection which includes movies and concerts near and dear to me.  I haven't purchased any disks in at least 3 years, nor do I foresee purchasing any in the future.  Why?  The volume of content available via streaming (movies or series) is considerable, and watching in my home theatre is good enough that I just don't need it.  It's certainly not as good as sitting in an IMAX theatre, and I'm always on the lookout for equipment upgrades to provide an even better home experience, but upgrades make sense now?  I've thrown enough $$ at my 2 channel system that it sounds extremely good, dare I even say great.  Some big purchases have produced better, yet subtle, improvements.  After a point, my humble experience is demonstrating the investment in dollars is not directly proportional to the amount of improvement.

I've spun my wheels and made some bonehead moves while upgrading my 2 channel audio system, and given that I spend 80% of my time watching stuff in my HT, the comparatively small expense of a better streamer for an activity where I spend the majority of my time was worth it. Isn't it odd the tens of thousands you can spend on streamers and DACs, yet the best video streamer out there is around $200?  I felt taking the chance on the ATV-X (no return policy) was worth it.  Would you feel that way, sitting on my couch and watching?  Probably not, but we all travel our own paths.

Robert

@emergingsoul , I have to wonder (afraid to, actually) whether the soon to be released upgrade Apple TV 4K will sufficiently bridge the gap between what's come before and my ATV-X as to make my purchase look silly.  The cost of the first Blu-Ray players was crazy, and after a few years they were under $100.  The engineer who makes the upgraded ATV-X naturally says that his product will still be better than the new product that Apple will come out with.  I'm not here to proselytize, only share my experience.  If it helps, great; we all benefit from shared experience.

I've spun my wheels and made some bonehead moves while upgrading my 2 channel audio system, and given that I spend 80% of my time watching stuff in my HT, the comparatively small expense of a better streamer for an activity where I spend the majority of my time was worth it.
 

@traubr I can relate on each point you mentioned, especially the 80/20 split and weird avenues I’ve explored with my 2-channel system. Nonetheless, greatly appreciate the effort made in your thorough response. And the 25% increase in SQ is hard to ignore, especially when you add the uptick in PQ that you experienced.

@emergingsoul I definitely see where you’re coming from. Speaking for myself, the way in which the ATV integrates into the Apple ecosystem on top of its friendly user interface creates the value that other streamers can’t match. In a sense, this somewhat locks me into this device, which always begs the question of whether I can optimize the device/experience.

@traubr 

Very nice reply.

@toro3 

Overall I will say I don’t care about video quality as that’s pretty darn good to begin with I’m more concerned about the quality of the audio.  I’ve done everything I can to improve sound quality by investing in a biampable amp, mc901 from McIntosh. Great power supply, and ethernet cable and switches, Great speakers and I feed the signal through a Conrad Johnsen pre-amplifier. 

Anything beyond this point would be like sucking rock from a stone. Unfortunately we struggle with compressed audio feeds.  Getting back to my very original point it’s absolutely tragic that a lot of good sound quality ultimately is trapped under the netflix and other streaming sources roofs, Will never be heard because the water supply is restricted.  

So what does Reid Hastings hear?, the genius from Netflix, I hope he has to suffer from his compressed audio nightmare. Is he able to do anything. Are there enough people out there to warrant a major streaming upgrade for his users. I’d pay a lot more to get a better streaming quality if that was available, it’s not that much more to get premium that is offered but it’s far short of what it could be.  Maybe there’s plenty they should do and don’t. 

Unfortunately we struggle with compressed audio feeds.  Getting back to my very original point it’s absolutely tragic that a lot of good sound quality ultimately is trapped under the netflix and other streaming sources roofs, Will never be heard because the water supply is restricted.  

Agree. And that’s the crux of it; it’s completely out of our control when it comes to services compressing their feeds. Frustrating, but hopeful streaming will evolve in the near future.

@traubr 

use amperex nos red tip tubes, on my cj gat2. I like these tubes.

My home theater sound is pretty darn good, but because of the compressed signal it could be a lot better.

I'll be interested if the Apple tvx was only the Apple TV box with all the Power box add on stuff.  Not sure if I could just get the Apple TV piece of it.  

Ah, the GAT must bring sweet music to your ears.  I'm happy with my new ET7-S2, but there's always room for improvement.

The ATV-X is more than the power supply.  Chris, the engineer, does a number of things within the module itself.  Whatever he does is hush-hush, his secret sauce, and I can't blame him.  He modifies a specific model (don't remember which), where the overall build is very good and there is room inside for him to do what he needs to add his mods.  He is a beta tester for Apple and there are enough changes to the forthcoming one that he will not be able to use the new box. One of the mods is to add an external connection to attach the cable to his power supply. I thought about adding a separate (LPS) power supply, but the power connector does not lend itself to typical connectors for power supplies.  FWIW, I tried using a much better power cord with C8 connector on my Nvidia Shield, but it made no difference.  Plus, the company says their crappy cord is mated to the Shield, and any other cord may have a detrimental impact

And that’s the problem he probably is selling to a lot of people who don’t have a good Power supply and people just buy as one package , that’s really disappointing and my guess is he probably doesn’t sell many Apple devices. I already invested in a pretty good figure 8 Power cord