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Proac 2.5 Response tweeter upgrade with Ribbon Tweeter?

Greetings,
Has anyone tried replacing the tweeter (mine is Scanspeak 2010 851300) on the Proac 2.5 Response (mine is a clone) with a ribbon tweeter? Would it match or is this just a silly idea?
Thx for any comments or advice,
mozartbrain
13 responses Add your response
pravstar
1 posts
 
I have exactly the same speaker and was looking to do exactly the same thing. 
It would require a lot of cutting amd fiddling about to put a ribbon and won't be cost effective.
The best option would be to buy the d30rs dome tweeter from proac directly. Ill be looking to do this after the new year so ill let you know the reolacement tweeter price
mozartbrain OP
18 posts
 
Thank you !
8 Ohm's it is. I've heard the results of 4Ohms first hand now - not pleasant.
Thx, Bob
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,575 posts
 
2. If I want a speaker of this ’ilk’ (2 woofers + Tweeter and crossovers) that needs serious drive power then I would need to purchase a new amplifier. However, I would rather investigate other speaker options so that I do not need to change my amplifier.
As a general rule of thumb, if you want to get the most out of your tube amplifier, its in your best interest to avoid 4 ohm speakers- and this includes speakers that are rated at 8 ohms but have dual woofers such that the woofer impedance is 4 ohms.

So when I see dual woofers I make sure to find out what the impedance is at the woofer frequencies! If its 4 ohms its going to put your tube amp (regardless of the tube amp) at a disadvantage.
Now its also a simple fact that most amplifiers regardless of technology make less distortion into higher impedances. So 4 ohms means in general you will be hearing more distortion- and the ear converts all distortion into tonality, so this usually means 'brighter and harsher' with less detail than the recording itself. All in all its worth it to seek out those speakers with higher impedances- for one thing it means that the designer is listening to his product with a more discerning ear.
audioconnection
1,270 posts
 
(((If you don't have a huge 3d soundstage with the D48r something else is wrong))Yes in total agreement. They play music without ringing artifacts.To some folks, ringing offers a short term wow factor.
 Best JohnnyR
jperry
2,430 posts
 
Glad you like the Tannoy speakers. I am sure they are a much better match for your amplifiers.

 "The sound stage is huge and 3D (compared to my Proac 2.5 and the D48r's) "

If you don't have a huge 3d soundstage with the D48r something else is wrong


mozartbrain OP
18 posts
 
Tannoys
@twoleftears  
@atmasphere 
@jperry 
@archguy

Today we auditioned the Tannoy Turnberry GF. Wow! My amp had no problem driving these speakers. Whilst the specs say that the bass only goes to 40Kz it was a much more musical and real. The sound stage is huge and 3D (compared to my Proac 2.5 and the D48r's) Clean sound and transparent too.

My wife liked them but was concerned I might be playing them at the same volume as we tested today. I said, "not quite - just seeing what they can do through my amp" I actually took my SUT, Phono, Pre and Power amp. All great except for a hum which I think was just the set up in the shop environment. Would speakers cause a hum? The hum increased with the volume control. This doesn't happen at home.
The shop use their turntable, tonearm and cart. They produced a very high Rez and resolving sound. I think my Garrard and ebony tonearm would mitigate the slight brightness that we heard and suspect was their t/table, arm/cart combination.
Thank you, 

mozartbrain OP
18 posts
 
@twoleftears
@atmasphere
@jperry
@archguy
Thank you all for your comments.
On Thursday I auditioned the Proac D48r’s.

I brought along some vinyls - MJ BAD ; Messiah; Nat K.Cole etc.

1. Whilst we warmed up my Diva 25w/ch amp we listened to some CD’s (Eva Cassidy). We found the sound quite engaging: smooth, rich LF, nice mids and very smooth HF. However, we still found the overly ’warm’.

2. With the Diva connected on the 4Ohm taps and to the SS Pre - Phono - TT we listened to Nat K.Cole. Oh dear - sounded screechy and thin. We listened to some MJ and after a minute swapped the speaker wires to the 8 Ohm taps. This was much better. However, not the control of the bass and overall lost some integrity and coherence in there sound. We listened to some more vinyl with the same conclusion.

3. We swapped out my Diva for the shop’s SS Amplifier (100 w per channel) and everything was better. Control through all frequencies, smooth and engaging. The only thing we didn’t like was the slightly over ’warmth’ that is maybe a signature of these speakers.

So our conclusions:

1. My 25w/ch Diva is not capable of presenting the best that these speakers are capable of.

2. If I want a speaker of this ’ilk’ (2 woofers + Tweeter and crossovers) that needs serious drive power then I would need to purchase a new amplifier. However, I would rather investigate other speaker options so that I do not need to change my amplifier.

Kind regards,


twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,313 posts
 

For many years I drove my 2.5's very successfully with a Cary SET 300B amp putting out about 13w max.  This combination was recommended by Arnie, the guy who founded Audiogon years ago.  It was rumored that Denis Had used Proacs when voicing his amps.

@mozartbrain If you read a lot of review of the 48R carefully, you'll see that they say that the ribbon is well integrated, better than most, but that if you system is already fairly revealing, they may give too much of a good thing.  I've tried in vain to find feedback on the D48, with the dome tweeter.

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,575 posts
 
It looks like you are using a tube amp with medium to low power. The Proac 2.5 is very inefficient, but can produce deep bass (see the review in Stereophile).
FWIW we sold our M-60 amplifier to a lot of Response 2.5 owners back when the speaker was in production. You don't need a solid state amp to get good bass on that speaker- you just need an amp with bandwidth (the M-60 is full power to 2 Hz). A solid state amp is not likely to get a 'sweeter sound' that is also sought.
jperry
2,430 posts
 
"more 'body' to the sound and deeper bass"

It looks like you are using a tube amp with medium to low power. The Proac 2.5 is very inefficient, but can produce deep bass (see the review in Stereophile). You should borrow if possible a fairly powerful solid state amp (high damping factor and 100-200 wpc)  to see how that works with your speakers.
archguy's avatar
archguy
45 posts
 
At their best, ribbon tweeters can supply amazing, effortless, shimmering highs.  I'm definitely a fan.  However, ribbons' native impedance is usually so low that they need especially careful integration into the rest of a speaker system.  Often a conversion transformer is required, and the crossover(s) also require intensive analysis. 

What this means is that it's next-to-impossible simply to switch out a dome tweeter for a ribbon in an existing speaker.  You're much better off selling those speakers and purchasing some which have a ribbon already integrated into their configuration. 
mozartbrain OP
18 posts
 
@jperry 
Thank you for your comment.
I love my Proac Response 2.5 speakers but would like a little more 'body' to the sound and deeper bass. I'm also very interested in the ribbon tweeters that are said to be much 'sweeter' and extending.
Could you comment on these and any other differences that you experienced when upgrading to your D40r's from the 2.5 response's?
Thx so much, 
jperry
2,430 posts
 
No idea on the matching, but I owned a pair of 2.5 and now own the D40r with ribbon tweeter. Much better speaker.
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